So I test drove two cars today (E36 M3, R32)

[JackoliciousLegs]

First, the 1992 325 fully converted to an M3. This thing was a pile of shit and was the first e36 M3 (if you can call it that) that I drove. It might've been worth 6500 to someone, but not me. My RX-7 felt like it pulled just as hard, if not harder... handled better (even though it had M3 diff and bilsteins with HRs)... and felt more solid (if that's possible). It was a rust bucket that looked good from far. It was truly a disappointment after all the buildup.

Then, off to carmax to test out a 2004 R32 with 6k on it. I have to say, I hated VWs going in. I'd never been really impressed with anything they've made. Sure I love the old rabbits and GTIs cuz they're small and nimble... but not really as sports cars. I went in also thinking that it would be a watered down, slower version of the STi... with similar build quality (better than the evo).

Man... was I wrong.

FYI. I liked the STi (solid construction, fast), hated the evo (poor build quality, BAD boost lag) but enjoyed both of their handling.

The R32 felt good from the first step into the car. I slid right into the Koenigs and easily found a perfect driving position. I turned the key to hear a GLORIOUS growl of the 3.2. WOW. This sounds better than the M3 I'm thinking. The seats are SOOOOO comfortable. The steering wheel is the best I think I've ever felt. Thick, grippy... just quality. I slowly pull away and feel that this is a different beast than my roommate's fully loaded 04 VR6. This is a monster.

The car is warm and I pull away briskly... DAZZLED by the torque of the thing. I can't help but notice the sweet exhaust note humming through the sunroof.

I take my first turn... a U turn at full throttle to feel a very neutral handling car at my fingertips. Mild understeer... but it still felt downright amazing. Predictable and direct. Torque, torque, and more torque pouring out of the engine as I peer down at the speedo grazing 70 mph. WOW this thing is fast. The power comes so much more effortlessly than either of its Japanese rivals. The steering feels tight, nimble, and above all.... firm.

It seems that I've fallen in love with this car. I can't even describe the joy that it gave me to find a car that could fit 4-5 people comfortably... in style... that gave, imo, the perfect amount of "sport" to an everyday car. This is the one.

Please tell me there's something wrong with this car. Why it's impractical, unreliable... something. Give me something to hate it for....



so I can bear to be without one until the day I can afford it.

[JackoliciousLegs]

[CaptainHenreh]

Uhm, you'll be nickel and dimed to death? I thought you wanted a reliable car, and you're test driving volkswagens?

That said, I wouldn't buy an R32 unless it had DSG. Come to think of it, I wouldn't buy an R32, but I wouldnt' buy one definitely if it didn't have DSG.

IF you like the R32, just wait until the A3 comes out. It'll be just as cool and way more pimp.

Also, holy dollar signs batman! For the price of an R32 you could buy two nice M3's and still have change.

[JackoliciousLegs]

Yeah, price is one thing, but if considering a new car for non-chicago use... it's a great one. I guess it's right up there with a used e46 m3.

[G.Irish]

It wouldn't be a bad choice. A bit porky and VW/Audi group has had fits with electrical problems in the last few year but other than that its a solid car that would be more than enough fun for a daily driver. What price range are you looking for anyway? A $6500 faux M3 and a $30,000 VW are two wildly different beasts. Also, is AWD that important to you?

[JackoliciousLegs]

Well, I'm not looking seriously at either. The only thing I'm seriously interested in is a civic hatch in good shape with low miles for under 5k.

The faux m3 was a long shot and the r32 was to dream.

[BLAIR]

they kick ass.. really no problems with them to date. that stand out to me. cant beat the sound of a vr6, interior is beyond pimp. awd is fun.. but they sure are alot of money.. i plan on getting one when lets say they are 10k or so. what are they going for used.. low 20's????

dont listen to people on here talking about the unrealiability of VW's and so on.. i dont really know anyone here who even drives one. I have had around 10 VW's all of my close freinds all drive VW;s new and old including 2 with r32's. i cant think of any experience any of us has had about reliability. especially a reason to not get a car when it feels so right for you. the cars kick ass.

[Myuki]

dont listen to people on here talking about the unrealiability of VW's and so on.. i dont really know anyone here who even drives one.

I drive one. :wink:

Anyways, about reliability, Blair's right, my GTI when i got it was a little under 90k, with nothing wrong with it, it was almost like new, cept for the normal 90k wear and tear. Everything was the original stock parts. If you take care of it, like the last owner of mine did, it should be very reliable in the long run.

I also know a few friends with 10+ year old VWs and they run well, too.

[Mike]

Anyways, about reliability, Blair's right, my GTI when i got it was a little under 90k, with nothing wrong with it, it was almost like new, cept for the normal 90k wear and tear. Everything was the original stock parts. If you take care of it, like the last owner of mine did, it should be very reliable in the long run.

You've driven it for how long now? Two weeks?

I've heard horror stories about VWs, but everyone I know who has had one has been lucky. (take that Rex!) I'd seriously consider the R32 if it wasn't a two-door and so expensive. There are a lot of cars to look at in that price range.

[.RJ]

R32 exhaust note = t3h sexy

And they they can make you look like a hero on track in the rain... it just kicks ass there.

Other than that, the price tag is way too damn high, and it looks just like any other damn econobox VW golf (waits for ITR comment)

[Myuki]

Anyways, about reliability, Blair's right, my GTI when i got it was a little under 90k, with nothing wrong with it, it was almost like new, cept for the normal 90k wear and tear. Everything was the original stock parts. If you take care of it, like the last owner of mine did, it should be very reliable in the long run.

You've driven it for how long now? Two weeks?

I've heard horror stories about VWs, but everyone I know who has had one has been lucky. (take that Rex!) I'd seriously consider the R32 if it wasn't a two-door and so expensive. There are a lot of cars to look at in that price range.

I was going off more off the history of it before i got it, and my friends ones, I'll have to see about mine, now won't i? :wink:

[ScottyB]

1. R32 exhaust note = t3h sexy

2. they they can make you look like a hero on track in the rain... it just kicks ass there.

3. the price tag is way too damn high

4. it looks just like any other damn econobox VW golf

1. agreed, seriously. so so hot. apparently R32's use a 2 stage exhaust, under part throttle the exhaust is only routed out of one of the twin exhaust tips. under heavy throttle they both open, and it sounds amazing

2. agreed i would think

3. agreed, way too overpriced, even used

4. are you sure you were looking at an R32?! i think they are not only a standout amongst small cars, but its classy and sleek for a hatchie, IMO



Jack, sorry to hear about the faux-M3. thats a shame. glad you like the R though, i've always been a fan (i just wish they'd loose some weight). I'm with Blair though, my family has two audis and they are utterly reliable, and driven almost every day and every season. my understanding is that the R's are built really strong, especially in the drivetrain.

[bassmangrammy]

Anyways, about reliability, Blair's right, my GTI when i got it was a little under 90k, with nothing wrong with it, it was almost like new, cept for the normal 90k wear and tear. Everything was the original stock parts. If you take care of it, like the last owner of mine did, it should be very reliable in the long run.

You've driven it for how long now? Two weeks?

I've heard horror stories about VWs, but everyone I know who has had one has been lucky. (take that Rex!) I'd seriously consider the R32 if it wasn't a two-door and so expensive. There are a lot of cars to look at in that price range.

You read lots of things.

[Sijray21]

man the R32 is the hotness....mmm....

i've never really driven one, but i certainly intend to. I'm sorry to hear about the shitty shape of the '92, but i guess that goes along with getting a 13/14 year old car. All the cars you'll see will be different and i'm glad that your going out and experiencing other cars, it'll change people minds with the quickness.

I like the R32 and all its aspects when i read about them on forums and in articles online, and the exhaust tone on the R32....::drool::. And regarding the reliability of VW's...if you take care of them (like any other car) they'll treat you right. The '86 VW Gti my parents bought way back in 1986 has served them well. The only serious problem we had with it was a coolant issue in 1995. Other than that the car runs incredibly well for being nearly 20 years old. Shocks and wear items have been replaced, but i asked my mom about its history and she just said the usual stuff (brakes/tires/fluid/belts). Surprisingly no electrical problems, and i'm sure there are a lot of problems in other cars that we don't really hear about.

I think the only exception in reliability would be Honda/Acura. I strongly believe that their cars compared to others have a more reliable history and people know this. I've had mine for a while (135k+ miles) and it has been nothing but good to me with the usual maintenance issues (I blame the mysterious oil-loss problem to the damn thieves since it no longer exists and i did nothing to solve it). I mean hell, i've seen a video that Scotty showed me of a SOHC engine-ed little hatch/crx (whatever it was) was put through water injection, drained oil, and redline-ed for approximately 25-30 minutes (no oil...) and it finally crapped out. That's f-ing stout!

If you want reliability in older cars i would definitely think honda, but really all the newer cars are pretty much "reliable". And as long as you keep up with the general maintenance of the vehicle i wouldn't foresee a problem with a newer car, any newer car for this matter. If this is wrong i just want a link to an article or something.

IMO - R32 is a good buy for what you'll be doing (having fun with your car), plus it's sexy :wink:

[G.Irish]

Well, not to be an ass but if the perception of VW/Audi's reputation were unfounded it would not be something so specific as electrical problems. People would just say, "they're unreliable". Apparently this is something that has only come along in the last 5 to 10 years because in the past VW has had a sterling reputation for quality.

It cannot be a tremendous problem otherwise you'd hear more about it but its definitely not nothing. Jay you asked for links so...

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/vw_smoke.html">http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/vw_smoke.html</a><!-- m -->

If you search on Google for "Volkswagen electrical problems" you'll find quite a few more stories.

That's not to say a bunch of other manufacturers don't have their own gremlins. In recent history several of the V6 Honda/Acura models have been having transmission failures and we all remember the grenading E46 M3's. You just have to do your research.

However, even with all of the publicized problems with the aformentioned cars, it doesn't mean every single car is going to be gimpy, or even half of them, or even 10%. You're just rolling the dice with any of them. For me it would come down to whether or not there is a more reliable alternative, if the car is my only car, and how expensive would the repairs be.

[Evan]

Dont VWs have a shorter than typical warranty period?

[Sijray21]

Dont VWs have a shorter than typical warranty period?

it's about the same according to the VW site

http://www.vw.com/gti/warranty.html

the lowest appear to be Honda and American Makes

http://www.carsmart.com/content/research.../index.cfm

Looks like there are a lot of problems i was not aware of from all makes on that one site G put on, wow.





Jack,

keep us updated on what you'll be getting , I'm always interested in what people get and why they chose them.

[ScottyB]

nice link G, quite an eye opener. many of those problems, however, i have never heard of....but then again, i don't study these things or anything.

most of the VW/Audi elec. problems fall into the coil pack failure category, and many of the turbos on the 1.8t/deisel engines fail due to careless car owners just shutting the car off with no cooldown period.

[Mike]

Anyways, about reliability, Blair's right, my GTI when i got it was a little under 90k, with nothing wrong with it, it was almost like new, cept for the normal 90k wear and tear. Everything was the original stock parts. If you take care of it, like the last owner of mine did, it should be very reliable in the long run.

You've driven it for how long now? Two weeks?

I've heard horror stories about VWs, but everyone I know who has had one has been lucky. (take that Rex!) I'd seriously consider the R32 if it wasn't a two-door and so expensive. There are a lot of cars to look at in that price range.

You read lots of things.

:?:

[Mike]

I think the only exception in reliability would be Honda/Acura.

And Toyota/Lexus! Heck, they are actually better than HA.