since i'm getting interested in doing some auto x, i thought i'd find out a bit more on my brake options. now i know many things that we can do that i have learned from RPS(ranger power sports). things like swapping up to 10 inch drums from 9", swapping whole rear to get 8.8" rear and to get rear discs. which is proabaly the best route, but also more involved and money. i do have slotted and/or drilled front rotor options as well. i'm not sure of any caliper upgrades other than OEM replacement. i did find OEM stuff priced on the higher side which seemed to be of better quality. one thing in particular was calipers with metal or phenolic pistons. in the "better brake" world, is there a preference?
94 Civic VX 92HP!!
1992 Ranger Sport
for autox (and even track), don't worry about your rear brakes assuming they function. get some nice pads on the front and you're good to go.
I Am Mike
4 wheels: '01 RAV4 (Formerly '93 Civic CX, '01 S2000, '10 GTI, '09 A4 Avant)
2 wheels: '12 Surly Cross-Check Custom | '14 Trek Madone 2.1 105 | '17 Norco Threshold SL Force 1 | '17 Norco Revolver 9.2 FS | '18 BMC Roadmachine 02 Two | '19 Norco Search XR Steel (Formerly '97 Honda VFR750F, '05 Giant TCR 2, '15 WeThePeople Atlas 24, '10 Scott Scale 29er XT, '11 Cervelo R3 Rival, '12 Ridley X-Fire Red)
No longer onyachin.
Mike Wrote:assuming they function.
hey, how'd you know they didn't :lol:
they do sometimes when it's wet and it's cold.
94 Civic VX 92HP!!
1992 Ranger Sport
for autox I really wouldn't worry much about the brakes. as long as the pads are decent, you should be fine. You never really heat the brakes up that much as the speeds are lower and its a quick run (1 min or less).
1996 BMW 328is white │ 89 BMW 325i track car │84 BMW 325e for sale!│Past: 94 Honda Del Sol S, 2003 Toyota 4Runner V8 Limited, 1996 BMW 328i
e30/e36 parts for sale... PM me
but if i were to try bigger courses, then it might come into question right?
another thing.
a few weeks ago, i pulled a front wheel to check condition on pads, they were fine (after yesterday i should check them again  ). while in there i noticed that my calipers are held together by a roll pin of some sort. i've worked a few in my time that actually had bolts to take off and separate them. would it be wise to convert mine to bolts for ease of replacement?
94 Civic VX 92HP!!
1992 Ranger Sport
lillitnn92 Wrote:but if i were to try bigger courses, then it might come into question right?
another thing.
a few weeks ago, i pulled a front wheel to check condition on pads, they were fine (after yesterday i should check them again ). while in there i noticed that my calipers are held together by a roll pin of some sort. i've worked a few in my time that actually had bolts to take off and separate them. would it be wise to convert mine to bolts for ease of replacement?
Bigger autocross courses? Very unlikely you'd need to upgrade. Bigger as in a Road course? Well then its a definate possibility.
Remember, brakes don't stop your car. Tires do. If your brake balance (Front to rear) is good, you can lock up your brakes, and you can modulate the brakes fine, then you gain nothing with bigger brakes except a greater thermal capacity. You only need that if you can fade your brakes. You should only upgrade your brakes (calipers and rotors), when you have to because by doing so your increasing rotational mass and unsprung weight, both bad for going fast.
I'm going to disagree with a lot of people and not recomend changing only the front pads. Yes, they do the majority of the work, but consider this. I upgraded my pads to Axxis Ultimates. They have a much greater coefficient of friction then that crap pads I had before. If you only change the front pads, the CF increases on the front brakes, and stays the same in the rear. This will change your brake bias to front even more. So, if you had pretty good balance before (which if its factory, its probably front biased much more then you would want it to stop as fast as you can), it will now be more heavely front biased, and you will be stopping in a slightly greater distance because your not taking full advantage of the traction your rear tire have available.
-Mike
Wow, this is why I stay out of brake discussions.
1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass 442
mpg9999 Wrote:lillitnn92 Wrote:but if i were to try bigger courses, then it might come into question right?
another thing.
a few weeks ago, i pulled a front wheel to check condition on pads, they were fine (after yesterday i should check them again ). while in there i noticed that my calipers are held together by a roll pin of some sort. i've worked a few in my time that actually had bolts to take off and separate them. would it be wise to convert mine to bolts for ease of replacement?
Bigger autocross courses? Very unlikely you'd need to upgrade. Bigger as in a Road course? Well then its a definate possibility.
Remember, brakes don't stop your car. Tires do. If your brake balance (Front to rear) is good, you can lock up your brakes, and you can modulate the brakes fine, then you gain nothing with bigger brakes except a greater thermal capacity. You only need that if you can fade your brakes. You should only upgrade your brakes (calipers and rotors), when you have to because by doing so your increasing rotational mass and unsprung weight, both bad for going fast.
I'm going to disagree with a lot of people and not recomend changing only the front pads. Yes, they do the majority of the work, but consider this. I upgraded my pads to Axxis Ultimates. They have a much greater coefficient of friction then that crap pads I had before. If you only change the front pads, the CF increases on the front brakes, and stays the same in the rear. This will change your brake bias to front even more. So, if you had pretty good balance before (which if its factory, its probably front biased much more then you would want it to stop as fast as you can), it will now be more heavely front biased, and you will be stopping in a slightly greater distance because your not taking full advantage of the traction your rear tire have available.
-Mike
Chris's Axxis ultimates didn't hold together so well on the drive  hock:
Nick
Nick325is Wrote:Chris's Axxis ultimates didn't hold together so well on the drive hock:
Nick
my HP+'s were starting to mildly fade at one point. they didn't suffer as badly as chris's pad though!
What drive would that be? I think the ultimates are a great street/autocross bad (minus the dusting), but a road course (or alot of mountin roads?) would make quick work of them.
CCVT VP 05-06
1991 Sentra SE-R w/ SR20VE
1994 Yamaha Seca II
axxis ultimates are an awesome street/autox pad, no way should 33 eat them. methinks y'all need to engine brake more.
I Am Mike
4 wheels: '01 RAV4 (Formerly '93 Civic CX, '01 S2000, '10 GTI, '09 A4 Avant)
2 wheels: '12 Surly Cross-Check Custom | '14 Trek Madone 2.1 105 | '17 Norco Threshold SL Force 1 | '17 Norco Revolver 9.2 FS | '18 BMC Roadmachine 02 Two | '19 Norco Search XR Steel (Formerly '97 Honda VFR750F, '05 Giant TCR 2, '15 WeThePeople Atlas 24, '10 Scott Scale 29er XT, '11 Cervelo R3 Rival, '12 Ridley X-Fire Red)
No longer onyachin.
I haven't seen brakes smoke as much as Chris's were on saturday after 33. On the other hand my PBR metalmasters held up incredibly well.
Not sure why people talk so much shit about them.
Nick
my ultimates held up fine on several FAST 33 runs when i was sorting out crap... my drums weren't even working at the time (full front brakes), i had wider tires than chris, and my car is a bit faster... it wasn't the pads.
I Am Mike
4 wheels: '01 RAV4 (Formerly '93 Civic CX, '01 S2000, '10 GTI, '09 A4 Avant)
2 wheels: '12 Surly Cross-Check Custom | '14 Trek Madone 2.1 105 | '17 Norco Threshold SL Force 1 | '17 Norco Revolver 9.2 FS | '18 BMC Roadmachine 02 Two | '19 Norco Search XR Steel (Formerly '97 Honda VFR750F, '05 Giant TCR 2, '15 WeThePeople Atlas 24, '10 Scott Scale 29er XT, '11 Cervelo R3 Rival, '12 Ridley X-Fire Red)
No longer onyachin.
Mike Wrote:axxis ultimates are an awesome street/autox pad, no way should 33 eat them. methinks y'all need to engine brake more.
That's stupid. Brake pads and rotors are 100x cheaper than clutches and engines and transmissions. They are there for a reason, all you have to do is not run crap pads (cough HP+ cough)
--chad
If I can beat on Ultimates all weekend long at Summit Point and BeaveRun (or 2 drivers when Im sharing!), if you are fading them on the street, there is something wrong with your pads or your driving 
my ultimates were also smoking at the end, but i have hp+'s in the back as well...?
usually they don't do that, i've used HP+'s on track and had a couple fading problems, but nothing major
i just think we were on them longer and not as hard as we should've been
...but we're on the street with traffic behind us so...not really the same situation...still shocked that i managed to smoke'm up though
maybe there was some brake failing because of the need to constantly slow down hard for people in front of you too and not just for turns
Rex4life Wrote:maybe there was some brake failing because of the need to constantly slow down hard for people in front of you too and not just for turns
i have to agree. not that we were tailing people, but in order to stay as a group there was some serious riding of the brakes.
p.s. Chad, if you know how to heel/toe i can't see how that's chewing your clutch up during engine braking. and no, i won't say anything about missing gears :wink:
ScottyB Wrote:p.s. Chad, if you know how to heel/toe i can't see how that's chewing your clutch up during engine braking. and no, i won't say anything about missing gears :wink:
I don't see what that has to do with anything. During heel/toe you are using the BRAKES to slow you down. Not downshfiting into a lower gear and letting out the clutch to slow you down (engine brake).
--chad
how is engine braking hard on the clutch? it is fully engaged... maybe on a ford motor there is reason to be concerned about it giving out during engine braking, but not a honda 
anyway, people drive 33 every damned day as their commute. i'm certain most of them run oem pads and drive automatics. if you guys were smoking performance pads with manual transmissions there is something wrong with your car or you were going too damn fast for a scenic drive.
I Am Mike
4 wheels: '01 RAV4 (Formerly '93 Civic CX, '01 S2000, '10 GTI, '09 A4 Avant)
2 wheels: '12 Surly Cross-Check Custom | '14 Trek Madone 2.1 105 | '17 Norco Threshold SL Force 1 | '17 Norco Revolver 9.2 FS | '18 BMC Roadmachine 02 Two | '19 Norco Search XR Steel (Formerly '97 Honda VFR750F, '05 Giant TCR 2, '15 WeThePeople Atlas 24, '10 Scott Scale 29er XT, '11 Cervelo R3 Rival, '12 Ridley X-Fire Red)
No longer onyachin.
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