What would you do?
I've flagged the corner many times and almost always people take the road... With rare exception, those people ended up in the trees. Based on that, I would go straight in to the sand. You?
I Am Mike
4 wheels: '01 RAV4 (Formerly '93 Civic CX, '01 S2000, '10 GTI, '09 A4 Avant)
2 wheels: '12 Surly Cross-Check Custom | '14 Trek Madone 2.1 105 | '17 Norco Threshold SL Force 1 | '17 Norco Revolver 9.2 FS | '18 BMC Roadmachine 02 Two | '19 Norco Search XR Steel (Formerly '97 Honda VFR750F, '05 Giant TCR 2, '15 WeThePeople Atlas 24, '10 Scott Scale 29er XT, '11 Cervelo R3 Rival, '12 Ridley X-Fire Red)
No longer onyachin.
I'd square up to the closest Spec Miata and use that.
(09-25-2019, 03:18 PM)V1GiLaNtE Wrote: I think you need to see a mental health professional.
Use the sand. If you have some brakes maybe trying the access road could work but with no brakes you're just not going to slow down. At least if you go through the gravel you'll slow down before you hit the tire wall.
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While at Turn 1 on Saturday I saw people use both, it is just a matter of how commited to the turn they are. The mystic paint Mustang had begun to turn even after realizing he had no brakes. If you have hit the access road from Turn 1, you might as well go through avoiding the concrete walls.
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G.Irish Wrote:Use the sand. If you have some brakes maybe trying the access road could work but with no brakes you're just not going to slow down. At least if you go through the gravel you'll slow down before you hit the tire wall.
my brakes didnt do much to slow me down at T1 when i tracked the STi there. the sand and gravel slowed me down lots but i ended up stopping very close to the tire wall. i imagine a car going faster than my STi on the front straight (~135ish) would plaster the wall.
1994 Ford Ranger
2004 Honda S2000
2007 BMW X3
I assume we are talking complete brake loss.
If I just get fade Im using the road but if the pedal goes to the floor im using the sand.
The sand is still a risk because it can bounce you around even if you go in straight.
If you loose your brakes you should always be able to still get a good amount of slowing via downshifting and light ebrake
G.Irish Wrote:At least if you go through the gravel you'll slow down before you hit the tire wall. and tire walls are softer than trees!
The sand is relatively new. I remember going off in T1 in the WRX and it just being dirt. At least all of MM was flagging T1 at the time so I got plenty of jeers as I got back on track :lol:
Evan Wrote:If you loose your brakes you should always be able to still get a good amount of slowing via downshifting and light ebrake
What's this ebrake you speak of?
If I had my wits about me I'd downshift while pumping the brakes and head for the gravel. I'd suggest trying to go in sideways to maximize your friction but then you risk a rollover if it digs in. Best case scenario would probably be heading in straight and then turning away from the wall with the turn if you can manage enough scrub. If you can't then at the last second let go of the wheel, pick your feet up and hope the engine doesn't end up in your lap.
nothing > tirewalls > else
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i wouldn't try turning in the sand... great way to flip. if maeng's heavy pile slowed from 135 going straight in, i'm not too worried going 15mph less and weighing 1000+ less.
I Am Mike
4 wheels: '01 RAV4 (Formerly '93 Civic CX, '01 S2000, '10 GTI, '09 A4 Avant)
2 wheels: '12 Surly Cross-Check Custom | '14 Trek Madone 2.1 105 | '17 Norco Threshold SL Force 1 | '17 Norco Revolver 9.2 FS | '18 BMC Roadmachine 02 Two | '19 Norco Search XR Steel (Formerly '97 Honda VFR750F, '05 Giant TCR 2, '15 WeThePeople Atlas 24, '10 Scott Scale 29er XT, '11 Cervelo R3 Rival, '12 Ridley X-Fire Red)
No longer onyachin.
Mike Wrote:i wouldn't try turning in the sand... great way to flip. if maeng's heavy pile slowed from 135 going straight in, i'm not too worried going 15mph less and weighing 1000+ less.
i was actually with my instructor when we went into the sand at 1 in his EF civic hatch. he faded his brakes and ended up going all the way through and onto the grass - drove onto the other service road and back onto the track. he then experienced the same problems at turn 5 immediately after and then took it into the pits. ended up that he cracked the brake pad and lost material. the metal foundation for the brake pad was bent, but i was very surprised as to how little the sand stopped his car. i thought for sure that we would get stuck, but we just went right through it.
i still think straight into the sand would be best.
Like said before, massive fade but still have brakes, access road, NO brakes, downshift go into sand and turn the wheel just a bit to create a larger resistance area for the sand to build up, but in reality, I'd probably try to make the turn and end up going into it backwards  .
white_2kgt Wrote:Like said before, massive fade but still have brakes, access road, NO brakes, downshift go into sand and turn the wheel just a bit to create a larger resistance area for the sand to build up, but in reality, I'd probably try to make the turn and end up going into it backwards .
from the time you figure out that you have no brakes to the time you realize that you have just shit your pants, you have little time to react. i usually try to put the clutch in everytime i brake with the intention of shifting that way a downshift would take less time, but i imagine panic would set in pretty quick and i wouldnt know what happened when the dust settled.
1994 Ford Ranger
2004 Honda S2000
2007 BMW X3
Maengelito Wrote:white_2kgt Wrote:Like said before, massive fade but still have brakes, access road, NO brakes, downshift go into sand and turn the wheel just a bit to create a larger resistance area for the sand to build up, but in reality, I'd probably try to make the turn and end up going into it backwards .
from the time you figure out that you have no brakes to the time you realize that you have just shit your pants, you have little time to react. i usually try to put the clutch in everytime i brake with the intention of shifting that way a downshift would take less time, but i imagine panic would set in pretty quick and i wouldnt know what happened when the dust settled.
Well, you need to get in the habbit of doing a brake check prior to needing them. Give them a quick stab prior to the full on hard stop, hell I pump 2 times then get on them hard, then clutch. Not only will this clue you in a second earlier but may bring your brakes back if they have gone away.
I always pump brakes prior to any braking zone, T-1, T-3, T-5, T-10. If any of are ever behind me, you will se the lights come on briefly.
I love reviving old threads!
Ole Wrote:If any of are ever behind me, you will se the lights come on briefly.
This is a great way to fuck with your buddy as well. I remember putting one of the officials into a tire @ VIR wall with this trick, good thing we in the karts  .
Since Evan is usually behind me, he knows I do this!
The 3x Evan was in front of me!
Mike Wrote:i wouldn't try turning in the sand... great way to flip. if maeng's heavy pile slowed from 135 going straight in, i'm not too worried going 15mph less and weighing 1000+ less.
i started thinking about this....wouldn't the fact that you're lighter mean that you'd "float" over the sand instead of digging in because of more weight? i have no idea having never been in a gravel trap but i would think the heavier you are, the better.
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--------------------------
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2000lbs is relatively light... not light.
I Am Mike
4 wheels: '01 RAV4 (Formerly '93 Civic CX, '01 S2000, '10 GTI, '09 A4 Avant)
2 wheels: '12 Surly Cross-Check Custom | '14 Trek Madone 2.1 105 | '17 Norco Threshold SL Force 1 | '17 Norco Revolver 9.2 FS | '18 BMC Roadmachine 02 Two | '19 Norco Search XR Steel (Formerly '97 Honda VFR750F, '05 Giant TCR 2, '15 WeThePeople Atlas 24, '10 Scott Scale 29er XT, '11 Cervelo R3 Rival, '12 Ridley X-Fire Red)
No longer onyachin.
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