Track car questions

[.RJ]

GSX feel like a dump truck??? I drive my friends mr2 ALL the time, my gsx definitely is more controllable. driving a 1g and 2g are completely different experiences, I actually invite you to drive my car. Its very nimble for a heavy car.

The mr2 is very lackluster and light on its feet. It doesnt have the power and the steering feel doesnt feel right compared to my gsx. I feel at home in the gsx, too bad I cant afford to track it.

Thats probably because you are so used to driving the GSX.... i've driven several 1st and 2nd gen GSX's, and autocrossed a 2nd gen with springs/shocks/swaybars and lots of boost - plainly, it sucked. Didnt want to turn, way too heavy, etc. Freshen up the MR2 and its a blast to drive - no it does not have the power, but also be warned that when the rear starts to slide, it will most likely spin - not much fun at 100mph

For tires I am already covered. I have a set of 3000gt rims that quy used that one day at autocross, I have replacement tires for those so I am covered for tires.

Those are going to be way too heavy... keep the stock rims and put a set of Falkens on.

[G.Irish]

Yeah but you're talking about autocross vs track. At autocross speeds some of the heavier cars are not such a hot ride but open up the road a bit and they come into their own. You also have to consider that Hawley might not have had the car set up right. Kinda like our Hondas, if you don't have enough stiffness in the rear they become plow-mobiles.

At any rate, when the MR2 is decently sorted out it'll be a fun car to drive and at the very least it'll force you keep your corner speed up which will help you learn more, faster. And of all the drive configurations, MR is definitely the most challenging to drive :thumb up:

[D_Eclipse9916]

Those are going to be way too heavy... keep the stock rims and put a set of Falkens on.[/quote]

Doesnt matter, I need sticky tires for autocross and track only and 15s would not fit quite so well on my dsm, 16s are perfect, and they are a LOT wider than the stock ones. The 3000gt rims fit both cars.

Edit: and im not trying to be an ass, but I have driven many a vehicles so its not like im just saying that from just driving a gsx. Also, you have to learn to drive a gsx, like any other car. Most people think awd and point and shoot. I dont get any understeer on my car unless i heavily mess up a turn. No offense to RJ, but of course since he doesnt have much experience in the GSX, and probably awd cars in general, you dont know how to get the right stuff out of those cars. And its not saying anything about your driving ability, god knows youll probably kick my ass at the track or karting.

GSXs are actually quite light for an older awd car. Subies are actually a bit heavier and evos are about the same weight. So your saying an evo is a chubby bastard? 3157 is not heavy at all for an awd car.
It annoys me to hear people talk shit about its heavy blah blah blah, well with awd 3175 is light. Now the gs-t at 2800 pounds is a little on the heavy side for a fwd car, but then again, it has a much more capable engine than most any car near its weight in fwd.

[.RJ]

you dont know how to get the right stuff out of those cars.

Its a car. It has a steering wheel and 4 tires.

Weight Transfer and vehicle dynamics do not get thrown out the window because its a GSX, or AWD, or its a French car, or whatever.

I had enough seat time in the car to know that even though it needed some changes it will still be a front heavy, understeering pig, and doesnt make a good track platform (keeping brakes on it and keeping it cool is somewhat of a challenge on that car).

[Ryan T]

Combine the two cars into an awd turbo mr2, now THAT would be a monster.

[D_Eclipse9916]

No offense, and I know your very respected around this community, that comment was as I said sixty times in the post because I was not trying to start something, that you having driving experience in a few cars and maybe being able to drive those cars very well, does not mean that you automatically know how to drive every car just because of a few variables that are common in all cars.

I am not saying vehicle dynamics and weight transfer and physics are throw out the window. In fact I never said anything of the like. However, the way you come in aand out of a turn differs on different cars.

IF you do not drive a rwd car you can understeer, fwds can oversteer.
I have no problem, and actually I havent ever had a problem with understeer on my car, in fact I have a little oversteer on the car.

I respect you and I consider this a discussion but your statement:
"its a car. It has a steering wheel and 4 tires." was boldy vague and from your posts.
And your statement that you have enough seat time in the car to know its a front heavy understeering pig and that you would know the car's dynamics and handling characteristics better than someone who owns one is very bold indeed.

I would like to point out something for your information. Greg Collier, a DSM, has won the SCCA unlimited SOCA class 2 years in a row being on track with ferraris, corvettes and other such cars. OH and to make it better, he is a FWD dsm. I guess he is stupid for picking such a bad platform.

PS- I Am surprised to hear you try to even bash an awd car for understeering (according to you) when you drive an integra. Not saying its a bad car, but its fwd and that thing (yes driven and have had seat time in them plenty) understeers, but can also be neutral. But it does have a lot more understeer than an awd dsm.

[Maengelito]

in track conditions, you will quickly learn that any car can be driven fast and conversly, any car can be driven slow. you should just get out on track and see how you like it and change from there.

[Ryan T]

Before choosing the car you want to use as a track car I'd go to the track and ride in several different types of cars...fwd, front engine rear drive, mid engine rear drive, awd and see which one feels the best to you. Even though riding in different cars won't give you a whole lot of knowledge, at least you'll get a general feel for how each platform performs at speed on track.

[G.Irish]

He's got you on that one RJ

[D_Eclipse9916]

Alright, I read over this whole discussion, I think it's gone far enough, im not trying to get anyone upset at me or get into a grudge match. You can post any replies you want, but I am not going argue for fear of hurting someone's emotions (not that we are pussies, but we are car people and get flamed up about talking about cars) Although I Do stand directly behind everythhing I have said.

I want to add that I respect all of you and realize that you all have far more on-track experience and that is why I post and argue so that I can learn.

[D_Eclipse9916]

Before choosing the car you want to use as a track car I'd go to the track and ride in several different types of cars...fwd, front engine rear drive, mid engine rear drive, awd and see which one feels the best to you. Even though riding in different cars won't give you a whole lot of knowledge, at least you'll get a general feel for how each platform performs at speed on track.

Yeah thats what ive been "kinda" doing. Around high school and my area, I was the "go-to" guy for driving cars. I have not driven any other cars on a road racing course, but I have driven quite a few cars in autocross, which is what I am trying to base my decision on.
I am researching them all. I decided on rwd because I hate fwd. I owned one for 2 years, so I am able to say that with confidence and does not refer to that they suck, but that I personally do not like them.
Out of all of them, I liked the lighter platforms. My top three trurned into the miata, 240sx, and miata. The rx-7 was there, but doing routine maintenace on those cars are a complete bitch compared to the others. Trust me, I help my friend with his FC rx-7 and although it wasnt hell, it was a pain in the ass compared to equivalent cars.

The 240 got knocked out when I wanted to narrow it down to the top 2. The car is light and has good performance, but ever since Fast and Furious, and the drifting phenomenon, 240 prices are completely ridiculous. Also, I did not feel comfortable in its driving position.

When I looked at the mr2, I decided although it was a much harder car to drift, and to swap engines it would be more of a pain, it would be much cheaper and the car just felt better in my hands when playing around. (Except for the all-new miata, which I autocrossed at the mazda event which was crazy nice)

The mr2 is going to be the cheapest and also feels the best in my hands (so far). I will be taking time to find this car, so who knows when ill get it. Took me a year of test-driving and searching around to find my gsx, I take my time, im very patient.

[ScottyB]

I take my time, im very patient.

then you're already ahead of the game :lol:

experience is great, and it's good that you have had a chance to work on a few of the cars too. when you eventually find your car of choice, just keep that patience and concentrate on getting everything in good condition.

pretty much everyone on here will tell you that although its fun to go really fast, your money is best spent on getting the car reliable and putting the rest into seat time....and with the seat time, speed will come naturally!

[.RJ]

He's got you on that one RJ

Not really

Stay tuned.... and grab your popcorn

[ViPER1313]

[Mike]

He's got you on that one RJ

Not really

Stay tuned.... and grab your popcorn

i just ran out...

[Dave]

cheap 240s are out there, and some of them are even in decent shape. Not sure what you meant by the "driving position", but I actually feel more cramped in my Talon than in my 240. Both of them have shitty seats, so that's not even a variable (although the S14 seats was a tremendous upgrade for the 240).
I'm glad that you chose RWD. That's all I'll say about that, since I just now have found the first FWD car that I actually enjoy and I don't want to end up eating my words if I find that it really is fun. I'm just afraid b/c of all the RWD platforms, it looks like you've chosen one of the "twitchy" ones. Not lecturing, just advising. As Andy will attest, driving the car with your head on straight and not up your ass will prove to be very rewarding.
I've considered an MR2 for quite some time, but I always shy away for it for several reasons. Mind you, I daily drive all of my track cars, so it has to be somewhat streetable. I take so much shit to the track every time that I almost always end up, in my theoretical plans, having to have a truck and towing it, or putting on a tow hitch like Boobies' Del Sol. It doesn't help that I always seem to have a passenger which uses up most of the storage room in that car. Keep this in mind before deciding, since not all events are an hour away and you'll need the extra room for those "just in case" tools and supplies.