Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!)

[G.Irish]

Thing is, we don't really know what is around the corner if Trump somehow manages to get re-elected legally or by cheating. What we do know is:

A. He has little regard for the rule of law
B. The Republican party will not even pretend like they will hold him accountable or constrain him in any way
C. He has done real damage to institutions like the Department of Justice, Department of Defense, Department of Homeland Security, fired multiple Inspector Generals, etc.
D. He is looking at jail time if he loses

Given more time he absolutely will do more damage to the rule of law. Will he find a way to get around term limits? Who knows. But it would be foolish to think Trump is going to improve with a second term. The more damage he does to our government, the higher the chances of more violence and chaos here and abroad. If Trump finds a way to cheat and stay in power he, and everyone else who supports Trumpist lawlessness is going to be emboldened. That would have real consequences for a long time.

Americans take for granted that we live in a generally high trust society where oligarchs don't openly rig elections, hold show trials, and rob the people blind. Or that we have a professional military that is largely insulated from politics. Or that we have a very professional and non-partisan federal law enforcement community. Losing those things would be painful in a way that is hard to quantify and may take decades to repair, if they're repairable at all.

[Kaan]

The guy says a new crazy thing every day to fuck with the press. Just stop listening. It's not news.

He also says these "whacky, crazy things" to inspire racists to be racist, sexists to be sexist, fascists to be fascist, homophobes to be homophobic, etc.

They aren't ignoring him so neither am I/are we.

OKAY... we can agree he says crazy stuff that weirdos grasp a hold of. but "to inspire" means hes doing it on purpose... and just to be aware, Quanon believes this... literally "they" think every tweet is strategic. I happen to think thats ridiculous. If you think he is doing it on purpose i think you are giving him too much credit.

---

D. He is looking at jail time if he loses

Given more time he absolutely will do more damage to the rule of law.  Will he find a way to get around term limits?  Who knows.  But it would be foolish to think Trump is going to improve with a second term.  The more damage he does to our government, the higher the chances of more violence and chaos here and abroad.  If Trump finds a way to cheat and stay in power he, and everyone else who supports Trumpist lawlessness is going to be emboldened.  That would have real consequences for a long time.

Cheat or get elected... if trump wins, by your own statements its not going to hurt that long. you just said he would face jail time when he is voted out (not so long term)... and we already know anyone dirty around him gets arrested and charged... so the only real threat is term limit manipulation... even most of the folks that vote for him wont stand for that. 

look at the streets of eastern europe and hong kong. you know what they want in the streets of eastern europe and in hong kong ... them gunz. you know the hill some us will die on and if the dems would leave alone, they might get some support. BUT... thats not happening with Biden/Harris.

[Gordonovski]

OKAY... we can agree he says crazy stuff that weirdos grasp a hold of. but "to inspire" means hes doing it on purpose... and just to be aware, Quanon believes this... literally "they" think every tweet is strategic. I happen to think thats ridiculous. If you think he is doing it on purpose i think you are giving him too much credit.

(I don't know why I can never get quote levels right when deleting unnecessary shit (whatever))
Is it not still problematic that he says things that allow these people to justify their actions because "duh president said it" regardless of whether it's intentional or not?
I hate that this dude can say whatever he want and everyone around him is supposed to interpret it for "what he really meant." 
It's also an issue that he can make wildly conspiratorial accusations by phrasing it as a question (recent ex. "Delay the Election until people can properly, securely and safely vote???") in order to distance himself from the statement/claim he's making. This way if anyone questions it, he/his supporters/etc. can say "he didn't mean it! he was posing a question!" A president is in such a position of power that even entertaining ideas signals to the public that it's a serious consideration to latch onto.

[CaptainHenreh]

I hate that this dude can say whatever he want and everyone around him is supposed to interpret it for "what he really meant." 

Joe Rogan was talking about this very thing recently. The President (apparently) posted a clip from JRE where Mike Tyson is talking about the "orgasmic feeling" of wailing on an opponent. The President apparently posted it with no context and everyone was like ???? WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

And Rogan was like (I'm paraphrasing) 'I mean yeah I could do that shit, I could just post whatever rando bullshit that I want, but if the president tweets, it should mean something.'

Thought that was an interesting perspective from someone who gets retweeted by the president.

(and for your quote trees, try pressing ctrl-shift-s, or clicking the little piece of paper icon at the top of the message window to get "view source". Much easier to manage quotes that way)

[Kaan]

OKAY... we can agree he says crazy stuff that weirdos grasp a hold of. but "to inspire" means hes doing it on purpose... and just to be aware, Quanon believes this... literally "they" think every tweet is strategic. I happen to think thats ridiculous. If you think he is doing it on purpose i think you are giving him too much credit.

(I don't know why I can never get quote levels right when deleting unnecessary shit (whatever))
Is it not still problematic that he says things that allow these people to justify their actions because "duh president said it" regardless of whether it's intentional or not?
I hate that this dude can say whatever he want and everyone around him is supposed to interpret it for "what he really meant." 
It's also an issue that he can make wildly conspiratorial accusations by phrasing it as a question (recent ex. "Delay the Election until people can properly, securely and safely vote???") in order to distance himself from the statement/claim he's making. This way if anyone questions it, he/his supporters/etc. can say "he didn't mean it! he was posing a question!" A president is in such a position of power that even entertaining ideas signals to the public that it's a serious consideration to latch onto.

"these people" take whatever anyone says and make it fit their agenda. They used to love to pick any presidents speeches apart... but they are and were literally crazy. We used to dismiss them as crazy... you add to that a president that isnt articulate and instead of dismissing them, you have a target to blame. This is why i swear he cant be doing these idiotic tweets in a strategic manner. pedos, racists, homophobes, etc... they have existed LONG before Agent Orange. dont get upset because he ruined twitter...

[ScottyB]

And Rogan was like (I'm paraphrasing) 'I mean yeah I could do that shit, I could just post whatever rando bullshit that I want, but if the president tweets, it should mean something.'

someone came up with an app that reformats his twitter rants into looking like presidential statements. good for a laugh given the way he communicates with no decorum whatsoever.

[Apoc]

 you know what they want in the streets of eastern europe and in hong kong ... them gunz.

Citation needed. Else, you're just projecting.

They want free and fair elections. At no point has the conversation been, "we need guns to get what we want."

You're fooling yourself if you think an armed American populace is actually protecting us from any government overreach. The feds have more guns, they're bigger, and they practice a lot. How's your armored personnel carrier coming along? I 100% support the demilitarization of police for this very reason. We wouldn't really stand a chance.

[CaptainHenreh]

 you know what they want in the streets of eastern europe and in hong kong ... them gunz.

Citation needed. Else, you're just projecting.

Yeah I'm sure they don't wish they could arm themselves...


https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/17/hong-kon...tress.html

[Kaan]

 you know what they want in the streets of eastern europe and in hong kong ... them gunz.

Citation needed. Else, you're just projecting.

Yeah I'm sure they don't wish they could arm themselves...


https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/17/hong-kon...tress.html

i'm sure they were satisfied with the recurve bows. 

[Apoc]

 you know what they want in the streets of eastern europe and in hong kong ... them gunz.

Citation needed. Else, you're just projecting.

Yeah I'm sure they don't wish they could arm themselves...


https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/17/hong-kon...tress.html

Self-serving supposition. Show me actual proof they want guns.

Contrary to many Americans' belief, many countries don't think armed citizenry is worth all the other problems that come along with it.

I'd also like you to explain how you'd resist a well kitted federal force... even if you managed to get hundreds to people to band together.

[Kaan]

 you know what they want in the streets of eastern europe and in hong kong ... them gunz.

You're fooling yourself if you think an armed American populace is actually protecting us from any government overreach. The feds have more guns, they're bigger, and they practice a lot. How's your armored personnel carrier coming along? I 100% support the demilitarization of police for this very reason. We wouldn't really stand a chance.

maybe not where you live... but where i live the sheriffs stand with the people. they walked with the peaceful protests over police shootings and stood with those protesting any infringement on our second amendment rights. maybe you need to worry about who you live around and vote into these offices. 

the well practiced feds are full of locals for me.... you think no one is crossing the lines when it comes down to it?

[CaptainHenreh]

 you know what they want in the streets of eastern europe and in hong kong ... them gunz.

Citation needed. Else, you're just projecting.

Yeah I'm sure they don't wish they could arm themselves...


https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/17/hong-kon...tress.html

Self-serving supposition. Show me actual proof they want guns.

Chris this is a stretch even for you. Hongkongers are getting locked up for even tweeting they think voting is chill, anyone saying they want guns is being shoved into a white van and headed straight to freezer camp. Don't be obtuse.

If you're worried about a totalitarian takeover, you should be taking lessons from hongkongs failure, not whatever this is you're doing.

[Kaan]

 you know what they want in the streets of eastern europe and in hong kong ... them gunz.

Citation needed. Else, you're just projecting.

Yeah I'm sure they don't wish they could arm themselves...


https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/17/hong-kon...tress.html

Self-serving supposition. Show me actual proof they want guns.

Contrary to many Americans' belief, many countries don't think armed citizenry is worth all the other problems that come along with it.

I'd also like you to explain how you'd resist a well kitted federal force... even if you managed to get hundreds to people to band together.

SO unlike Serbia and Hong Kong and other places around the world with civil unrest... where they actually face life in prison for graffiti let alone anti government protesting... they make defensive gear and weapons, launch rocks, fire bombs, etc.... you dont think they would want something with more ass behind it when they legit are risking their lives over  protesting legitimate authoritarian governments? 

in other countries the shoot you for throwing a rock... but they dont want to actually shoot back... 

[Apoc]

 you know what they want in the streets of eastern europe and in hong kong ... them gunz.

You're fooling yourself if you think an armed American populace is actually protecting us from any government overreach. The feds have more guns, they're bigger, and they practice a lot. How's your armored personnel carrier coming along? I 100% support the demilitarization of police for this very reason. We wouldn't really stand a chance.

maybe not where you live... but where i live the sheriffs stand with the people. they walked with the peaceful protests over police shootings and stood with those protesting any infringement on our second amendment rights. maybe you need to worry about who you live around and vote into these offices. 

the well practiced feds are full of locals for me.... you think no one is crossing the lines when it comes down to it?

Lol. A vast majority of WA is red counties and several sheriffs have refused to enforce WA gun legislation. So your plan is to have an armed police force step over the line and fight the national guard? Or also have the national guard defect? Guess what, that still means your guns are pea shooters compared to the equipment in this supposed civil war. Feel free to justify to yourself that your guns are protecting you. I get it... but don't project your prospective on others.

I firmly believe my guns will be useless in a totalitarian takeover. The ONLY thing that will defend me is acting early to preserve the democracy.

[CaptainHenreh]

Well you aren't even gonna be here, I thought? 

Leave your guns someplace safe when you go and let me know, ok?

[Apoc]

Well you aren't even gonna be here, I thought? 

Leave your guns someplace safe when you go and let me know, ok?

Honest to God truth, I've thought about shipping them to you.

[CaptainHenreh]

Well you aren't even gonna be here, I thought? 

Leave your guns someplace safe when you go and let me know, ok?

Honest to God truth, I've thought about shipping them to you.

My FFL will accept from private transfers, or I have a very close friend near you who will do only good things with them.

[Kaan]

I really wouldnt call it a civil war, but more of a revolution... "we" are currently playing revolution because the cost to play is low.

I actually do think there would be true defectors (in mass) when we face a true authoritarian government. I know more local NG folks and my local LE.

This country was founded by 20 year olds who purchased their only military grade hardware and handed it out. They fought traditionally and non traditionally... the government passed the NFA and made it illegal to purchase some of the same items that founded this country... and every additional gun law since has widened the gap between civilians and the government... but instead of closing that gap you are arguing to give it all up and only vote because its useless. this is what real authoritarian governments want. play into it all you want... i wont.

[Apoc]

I really wouldnt call it a civil war, but more of a revolution... "we" are currently playing revolution because the cost to play is low.

I actually do think there would be true defectors (in mass) when we face a true authoritarian government. I know more local NG folks and my local LE.

This country was founded by 20 year olds who purchased their only military grade hardware and handed it out. They fought traditionally and non traditionally... the government passed the NFA and made it illegal to purchase some of the same items that founded this country... and every additional gun law since has widened the gap between civilians and the government... but instead of closing that gap you are arguing to give it all up and only vote because its useless. this is what real authoritarian governments want. play into it all you want... i wont.

This country was founded when the firearms gap between the haves and have nots was much smaller. The build up of arms by the government is the vast majority of driving the gap, not gun laws requiring a $200 tax for suppressors. I am advocating for the demilitarization of police (et al) to close the gap. That's really the only way an armed populace would stand a chance.

[Kaan]

I really wouldnt call it a civil war, but more of a revolution... "we" are currently playing revolution because the cost to play is low.

I actually do think there would be true defectors (in mass) when we face a true authoritarian government. I know more local NG folks and my local LE.

This country was founded by 20 year olds who purchased their only military grade hardware and handed it out. They fought traditionally and non traditionally... the government passed the NFA and made it illegal to purchase some of the same items that founded this country... and every additional gun law since has widened the gap between civilians and the government... but instead of closing that gap you are arguing to give it all up and only vote because its useless. this is what real authoritarian governments want. play into it all you want... i wont.

This country was founded when the firearms gap between the haves and have nots was much smaller. The build up of arms by the government is the vast majority of driving the gap, not gun laws requiring a $200 tax for suppressors. I am advocating for the demilitarization of police (et al) to close the gap. That's really the only way an armed populace would stand a chance.

in the small arms world i agree... because everyone had small arms. my small arms vs. the NG small arms... basically equal... slightly behind. 

but the founding fathers had to buy artillery, explosives, etc. (which we cant buy anymore). sure i cant buy a F22 or any of that... but neither could the Taliban. They sure as hell pissed off a variety of standing armies. much like the founding fathers (and the evil taliban) we can be just as annoying to a standing army.