Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!)

[CaptainHenreh]

Either you vote to stop this horror show or you are a participant, and if you’re a participant fuck you.

This is precisely what is wrong with political discourse today. 

"Either vote for things you've always been opposed to or you're complicit in other things you've always been opposed to, and also fuck you."

Nope. If I'm the last man on Earth who votes with his principles in mind, then I'll embrace the nuclear fire with a clear conscience. I won't apologize for it either.

[rherold9]

Every time Trump talks, including this morning, this is all I can think of

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[CaptainHenreh]

Every time Trump talks, including this morning, this is all I can think of

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My favorite part was when he talked about how big our missiles were. I literally lold

[Kaan]

ya'll need more context in the middle east. neither side is going to keep us out of a fight there... no candidate can stay out of it. Its been a hot bed for 100 years... the hot bed was caused by allied politicians (not a political party) for their "own" gain. Its all been and continues to be extremely short sighted. Accept fighting in the middle east and our participation... there is no way out of it. "We" started the issues in the region during WW1 and no one has been able to solve it.

the only real solution is to become energy independent (because we only really care about the black gold)... let the area implode (which we cant do because EU/Russia/Israel/Etc will try to get their hands in the pot while we arent there) and ignore all the genocide/baby killing thats going to happen.

[Apoc]

Either you vote to stop this horror show or you are a participant, and if you’re a participant fuck you.

This is precisely what is wrong with political discourse today. 

"Either vote for things you've always been opposed to or you're complicit in other things you've always been opposed to, and also fuck you."

Nope. If I'm the last man on Earth who votes with his principles in mind, then I'll embrace the nuclear fire with a clear conscience. I won't apologize for it either.

I had this exact debate with someone yesterday. All the talking points on both sides were identical. 

The sad thing is the "just do what I think is right or fuck you" attitude actually pushes independents farther away.

The all or nothing attitude is why D lost on 2016 and probably why they'll lose in 2020. It's really unfortunate, because the party isn't what I voted for in four presidential elections of yesteryear.

[SlimKlim]

I stand behind what I said, I’m so far beyond trying to extend an olive branch or attempt to engage in polite discourse with people who have repeatedly demonstrate they would rather argue in theoretical absolute terms and bad faith hyperbole. If all taxation is theft all Republicans are evil. Fuck it.

[CaptainHenreh]

 If all taxation is theft all Republicans are evil. Fuck it.

If that's the argument you want to make I certainly won't argue with you. I have no plans to vote GOP in 2020, and never have.

I just am expressing regret that the Democrats don't seem to want my vote, even if I might be persuaded to give it, for all the reasons Scotty outlined.


But....oh well.

[Apoc]

I stand behind what I said, I’m so far beyond trying to extend an olive branch or attempt to engage in polite discourse with people who have repeatedly demonstrate they would rather argue in theoretical absolute terms and bad faith hyperbole. If all taxation is theft all Republicans are evil. Fuck it.

This is also what the other person said in my discussion. 

They are not theoretical absolutes. They are personal beliefs. If you think it all comes down to "taxation is theft" then you haven't been listening. This is the bad faith hyperbole.

Trump is horrible, but the republic will survive him. The question is how long it'll take for D to recover self-inflicted damage. It seems clear, to me, we're not on the upswing yet.

---

 If all taxation is theft all Republicans are evil. Fuck it.

If that's the argument you want to make I certainly won't argue with you. I have no plans to vote GOP in 2020, and never have.

I just am expressing regret that the Democrats don't seem to want my vote, even if I might be persuaded to give it, for all the reasons Scotty outlined.


But....oh well.

+1

[SlimKlim]

I don’t know how to tell convince people to treat fellow citizens like human beings and vote accordingly. I’m tired of trying so I’m reverting to impotent liberal rage because it feels better. I don’t care if it gets me anywhere, just like you don’t care about making any actual progress with your taxation is theft argument.

[SlimKlim]

[Apoc]

I don’t know how to tell convince people  to treat fellow citizens like human beings and vote accordingly. I’m tired of trying so I’m reverting to impotent liberal rage because it feels better. I don’t care if it gets me anywhere, just like you don’t care about making any actual progress with your taxation is theft argument.

Hey, Gary Johnson got 5% of the WA vote! PROGRESS!!

...and for the record, I believe a certain amount of taxation is reasonable and necessary, both for infrastructure and for equity of people.

[CaptainHenreh]

...and for the record, I believe a certain amount of taxation is reasonable and necessary, both for infrastructure and for equity of people.

I agree, with adding that reasonable and necessary theft is still in fact theft, and we have a moral obligation to reduce it to it's bare reasonable and necessary minimum.  

[.RJ]

ya'll need more context in the middle east. neither side is going to keep us out of a fight there... no candidate can stay out of it. Its been a hot bed for 4000 years...

FTFY.

I've read a lot of reasonable-sounding support for offing this guy (as if our intelligence community is now a bunch of fucking savants, how convenient).... but this is just some tinpot dictator bullshit where we just off all of our enemies - we need to be better than that if we are going to be taken seriously with the rest of the world.  Its not reasonable, serves no purpose, stops nothing, does not get us closer to ending 40 years of proxy wars or bringing all our troops home from the middle east.  All it does is let Trump be a military bully.

I'm fucking tired of reading the "Obama gave them billions of dollars!" bullshit narrative.  Fuck you, he signed a treaty that was better than the one we didnt have, put tensions on down to a low simmer, and then gave them fucking stuxnet.  

And of course today's briefing to congress justified the murder of the general by relating it to the response to go after Sadaam after 9/11.  They just have a hard on for bombing brown people and its sad.  

Ugh. The worst thing is, this motherfucker is going to get re-elected.

[SlimKlim]

Probably, unless everyone can pull their head out of their ass and fall in behind the Dem nominee. Please. Just this once.

[.RJ]

Probably, unless everyone can pull their head out of their ass and fall in behind the Dem nominee. Please. Just this once.

They're all over the place.  And then they do stupid shit like introduce a flood of dumb gun legislation in virginia the minute they get into office.  Its like getting the keys to your dad's M3 and then immediately lighting off the tires and looping it leaving the driveway.

[Apoc]

Probably, unless everyone can pull their head out of their ass and fall in behind the Dem nominee. Please. Just this once.

They're all over the place.  And then they do stupid shit like introduce a flood of dumb gun legislation in virginia the minute they get into office.  Its like getting the keys to your dad's M3 and then immediately lighting off the tires and looping it leaving the driveway.

^ this.

I know the D are doing what their constituency wants and that's how a party should work, but damn ride the blue wave through 2020 before you go all hardcore and piss people off.

I'm actually rooting for them to figure it out and nominate someone I can vote for. Is it weird that I want Bloomberg to get the nod?

[Kaan]

ya'll need more context in the middle east. neither side is going to keep us out of a fight there... no candidate can stay out of it. Its been a hot bed for 4000 years...

well prior to meddling, it was an area where empires clashed... but the people of the area submitted to the whoever was in charge. WW1 destabilized the area into modern times... its not trump, obama, bush 1 or 2... this modern issue started in WW1.

[ScottyB]

we get a pretty minor amount of oil from the middle east anymore, the vast majority seems to come from canada, then the saudis. is that a factor of production going down from middle east wells or just the saudis selling less and less to us, and more to other buyers?

energy independence, or at least sources constrained to north america, sure would be nice. why don't we have a decent market for solar again? oh yeah, the oil lobby...

[CaptainHenreh]

energy independence, or at least sources constrained to north america, sure would be nice.  why don't we have a decent market for solar again?  oh yeah, the oil lobby...

That's waaaaay over simplifying it. Ask yourself which companies have invested in solar and battery tech...

I'm not particularly keen on trading "our petroleum under their desert" for "our rare Earth minerals under some other shithole soil". PV has limited utility barring some scientific breakthrough, and things like solar molten salt plants work great in Nevada...but not great enough. 

I've wanted energy independence for a long time, but I'm not sure we as a nation are ready to accept what that would mean.

[ScottyB]

energy independence, or at least sources constrained to north america, sure would be nice.  why don't we have a decent market for solar again?  oh yeah, the oil lobby...

That's waaaaay over simplifying it. Ask yourself which companies have invested in solar and battery tech...

sorry, yeah you're not kidding.  i should have put an /s on the end of that statement, or maybe a "Thanks Obama" for effect.  really only about 30% of our nation can actually make full use of panels anyway, last i read.  they're very sensitive to inclination and you need a hell of a lot of tertiary equipment to actually capture the energy properly.  works OK on my camper, but i'd never do it to try to power a house 100%.