Learn me on E46 M3's.

[CaptainHenreh]

I hate to be "that guy", but I am a man who knows my limits. "I know that I know nothing", etc. So I humbly beseech MM to convey knowledge to me, without judgement.

So here's my story. Livin' in Hburg now, and buying the WRX in cash allowed me some financial breathing room. So I'd kind of like a "new" car. My first thought, natch, was to buy a new WRX. Problem with buying new is you gotta PAY for it. So I drove one, sniffed around, and...well I'm just not sure it's right for me. No decision made right now, obviously, but I'm exploring my options.

So then I drove a 330i. Now, imma be honest. I never really liked BMW's. I drove an M5, and of course that was an epic experience in Aluminum und Schteel, but it doesn't really count because I'd never own one. (Watercooled alternator = LOOOOOOL) And E36's, while very pretty stylingwise, just didn't get my gizzard. E30's are cool enough in their own right, but a bit gutless and kind of generic. Oh yeah, and old. I figured E46's were fat, gutless pigs who should be taken out back and shot. Maybe 323's are, but the 330 I drove was, well, quite pleasant. Nice torque, good handling, even a rode-hard-and-put-away-wet example that I had the pleasure of running Pace in.

So since then there's been a little worm in my head rattling around. Evil teutonic whispers on my subconscious. "Vy not un MDrei? Zehr gut, Ja?" It'd be cheaper than a WRX, comfortable (as I spend a lot more time on the road than I did in Manassas), maybe a little more adult (if more douchy) and definitely more of a "driver's car" than the WRX. So fuck it, I'll consider it.

So here's what I need from YOU.

Why not? What goes wrong? What breaks? How much is it to fix when it DOES break? What will I absolutely need to do right away if I bought one? What will I hate about it? What should I REALLY consider as a valid alternative? (If your answer begins with "LS-swapped..." please STFU, adults are talking.) Where can I find one? What mileage does the "everything falls apart" timer go off? What should I pay for what?

So, anyway, thanks in advance. I'll be spit-shining and selling the WRX in a month or two, and probably be looking to buy around christmas, hoping to find a deal from someone who didn't want to keep it another winter.

Love,

Rex

[kcook]

what a coincidence you made this thread... I've been looking at e46 m3's for the past few weeks and what problems they have and how much they are to repair.. etc. I plan to sell the STi in a few months for one.

[Kaan]

V8 M3 or 135... go big or go home?

I dont know dickola about BMWs... i just came here to shit up the place a little and make you look at lexASS cars for RWD reliable cool cars. I think you need a supra again.

[CaptainHenreh]

V8 M3 or 135... go big or go home?

I dont know dickola about BMWs... i just came here to shit up the place a little and make you look at lexASS cars for RWD reliable cool cars. I think you need a supra again.

if I could get a TT Supra with the same miles for the same price as an E46M3...I probably would.

Also, RJ linked me here: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://roadraceautox.com/showthread.php?t=27442">http://roadraceautox.com/showthread.php?t=27442</a><!-- m -->

Fairly informative, for the first two pages anyway.

[Goodspeed]

I can't not shit up this thread, sorry.

(If your answer begins with "LS-swapped..." please STFU, adults are talking.)

For the cost of some E46's out there, and certainly a new WRX/STI





Do this

[CaptainHenreh]

Anyone still know somebody over at MidAtlantic? They've got a E46M3 that I'd like to drive, but it's a smidge out of my budget.

As far as IS300's go, eh. if they weren't totally gutless OR were easy to make not-so I'd be seriously looking at one.

[Goodspeed]

Ok.

[CaptainHenreh]

Ok.

It's on "the list". This thread does not need any more LSx content.

[D_Eclipse9916]

Rex, you know I maintain and drive one right? Its my moms but I drive it every other day and do all the maintenance. If your really interested I can talk to you a bunch about it but mainly.

Twice (or maybe even three times) the maintenance budget of an E36 M3, for not nearly twice the car.

Rear Subframe issues: The way we drive? Need this. Simply welding in reinforcements. Cheap parts, expensive labor (although if you recruit me ive gotten so quick with subframes I can pull em in 1 hour complete with handtools).

VANOS issues: Not really all that common but some bolts do back out. New Vanos Unit from BMW: $2000, or get used, or hope it doesnt hpapen to you. As I said...not that common.

Cooling System: Relief is here, unlike the E36s, the E46s have good water pumps, but they are really expensive to replace, figure $200 just for a new water pump (and thats a good price).

Rod Bearings: Not really an issue, although check records for cars up to 2004 to see that it was done. Once they are replaced, it wasnt a problem. Over 150k miles? okay, maybe you shuold check them out then, but I do on any car with that many.

Regular Maintenance: Oil changes, prepared to be raped. Euro Castrol 10w60 or BMW's TWS. ONLY those two, try something else? Welcome to engine issues. Tischer has good prices on the oil, but its still $95 for a DIY oil change. Currys charges ~$165.

Every 30k miles, valve adjustments. REQUIRED. Tool? $200 bucks for the kit, or find someone who has a kit. Also need a valve cover gasket, and know how to adjust valve clearance. Not that hard, but certainly a bit more intensive than an air filter.

And of course stuff like filters, pads, rotors, trans fluid, rear diff fluid, etc. All actually fairly cheap.

Over 90k miles? Guess what, time for new suspension. BMWs shocks suck at keeping up over the miles, they are shot by then. So are the upper shock mounts, rear trailing arm bushings, front control arm bushings, front controm arm ball joints, rear ball joints. Luckily, parts are fairly cheap, but again...labor is killer.



Does this make you not want one? Go drive one....agressively. Drive around town? Youll go...meh. Drive it on a twisty road....holy shit where did this come from? It literally feels like the controls are attached to your nerve endings.

You want SMG? NO. I dont like it that much, yes its faster, yes its nice to just throw it in auto mode, but extra maintenance and a bit bucky in low-speed conditions.

[CaptainHenreh]

I know I don't want SMG, but out of that whole fucking list the only thing that gave me pause was the oil.

$12/quart for 6 quarts is a little... :evileye:

but whatevs. Doesn't bother me THAT much, I'll just need to start doing it myself again.

[Beej]

I'm going on 1 year with mine. '05 loaded non-ZCP purchased with 44k, now at 63k. Only modification is a quite necessary e46 330d shift lever (stock throw sucks). Beating the shit out of wood everywhere, I'm comfortable in saying mine has been bulletproof.

Don't get an SMG. They're boring and expensive when they break.

Differences over years (not a whole lot)
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.madrussian.net/m3/modelchanges.shtml">http://www.madrussian.net/m3/modelchanges.shtml</a><!-- m -->

Common Issues

• Up until the '03.5 models had bad rod bearing shells (edit: whoops, rod I think). Get an '03.5+, and you get blingy LED tails anyway.
  
• Coil packs. Some are good (Bosch), some ain't (Bremi). Bremi's will eventually fail.
  
• BMW rear trailing arm bushings just suck. Throw some urethane ones in.
  
• Idle after startup (cold or warm) isn't steady. It's normal.

Shit blown up by the internet:

• Rear subframe mounting points crack/rip. The dickheads didn't fix it after it happened on e36's, and it still seems to be an issue on e46's; though apparently (?) not as bad on M's. Plenty of cases to back it up. Turner sells a cheap reinforcement kit, but the labor is a pain in the dick ($1k). Make sure you have yours checked out first.
  
• Vanos bolts. Lots of people have reported "vanos bolts backing out/shearing". And there are more than a few that have taken pictures of them - it's clearly an issue. How widespread and what cars are affected is up for internet debate, so it's going nowhere. If they go, so does the engine. The preventative fix (BMW has updated the bolts) is also a pain in the dick ($1k+ again).

Regular Maintenance

• Oil changes are expensive - about $90 or so just for superduperBMWM oil (Castrol TWS 10w-60) and filter kit. BMW recommends every 15k miles, but most shoot for at least half that.
  
• Inspection I's ($500-800) every 30k miles, Inspection II's every 60k miles ($1000-1500). The biggie is the valve adjustment (can DIY, kit is expensive).
  
• All self-dimming rear view mirrors die eventually. I got mine fixed under CPO, but there's a company that'll fix them for like $90.
  
• Brakes ain't cheap (don't have a number, CPO again).
  
• HID ballasts/ignitors seem to not be super awesome - I've replaced one.

As for a comparison with a 330, I can only imagine it's louder (the s54 is just a loud motor...valvetrain/rasp) and stiffer - I was actually surprised how stiff the suspension was. It irritates the woman once in awhile, but it's more comfortable than my STi was and I dig it. As for durability, there are plenty of cars turning 100k+ without major issues - just make sure you get maintenance records.

My automotive ADD keeps me constantly on the lookout for something else, but nothing else really seems to appeal. It's a fantastic car.

[CaptainHenreh]

This would probably be mostly a DIY thing. I've adjusted valves before, and while I don't relish the thought, it's not something I can't do.

I know a guy with a welder though. Maybe he'd be willing to do the rear subframe for PBR...

[kcook]

Dj, I know we talked on the phone about this, but seeing you write it all out on paper... as gorgeous as these cars are... I may not want one now tear

I think I might just keep the car through the winter and e36 it up next spring

[SlimKlim]

Everyone else pretty much hit the high points. The one liner answer I always hear to that question is "It's like a porsche" for maintenance. But you know all about that now. I love the E46 M3, they are delicious to drive. Everyone already said it, and I know you wouldn't anyway, but I'd rather drop a cinder block on my foot than drive an SMG. Every one I've driven has felt like riding with someone that can't drive stick. Jerky and uncomfortable and just miserable in general. Then I saw a repair bill for one, probably the worst technology BMW has ever let reach production IMO, what amazes me is how well they sell. The DCT is waaay better.

As far as where to get one, I can help with that. The classified section of bimmerforums.com is pretty high traffic and always has good cars for sale. There is a 2001 Alpine White M3 on there with silver CSLs and a black roof. Its motherfuckin sexy and you should buy it.

EDIT: Because I love you.http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sho...?t=1685876

EDIT2: Holy schnitzlfritter. http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sho...?t=1632558 Right motor, wrong rear end, but just look at it.

[CaptainHenreh]

EDIT: Because I love you.http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sho...?t=1685876

Car is sold anyway.

[SlimKlim]

EDIT: Because I love you.http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sho...?t=1685876

Car is sold anyway.

Well, for research purposes then.

[ScottyB]

that M coupe....i wanna dip my balls in it. damn.

[premiershine9]

Anyone still know somebody over at MidAtlantic? They've got a E46M3 that I'd like to drive, but it's a smidge out of my budget.

As far as IS300's go, eh. if they weren't totally gutless OR were easy to make not-so I'd be seriously looking at one.

I was going to recommend that one to you, I will be back in town within the next few weeks and of course that means back to work at Mid Atlantic. I can't wait to get my hands on it and see what I can improve appearance wise :thumbup: