1999 Acura Integra

[Steve85]

Correct, just the shock. In the old days (I don't know if anything is different now... I'm completely out of "the game"), you'd buy ayour Koni yellows, GC sleeves, and springs separately. Is there a package or preinstalled sleeves now?

I think it's still pretty much that way. You get your shocks of choice then order the proper sleeve kit from GC. You can get get a GC sleeve/Eibach race spring kit from GC where you specify your rates, maybe that packaging is new? I'll most likely end up with second hand pieces and change springs if necessary.

So you're not still an active mod at HT?

[Mike]

I'm a mod on HT. Active? Hardly.

[andrew_j]

I have 350lb in the front and 250lb in the rear. Its far too soft for my liking honestly. I have been considering stepping it up but with my new car it looks as if I will stay as is for awhile.

[Maengelito]

500# or 550# all around

[Mike]

think i was 650f/750r w/ no sways and it was near perfect. nobody has ever convinced me sways are better than springs. sure, it's easy to adjust them, but you're basically making your car a mustang

[Steve85]

My hatch has a brand new set of Koni yellows and Eibach something lowering springs on them. You're welcome to that setup for a nice price if you want to come up and do some sort a swap. By brand new I mean less than 5 miles on it.

What's a nice price? PM if you want...

I have 350lb in the front and 250lb in the rear. Its far too soft for my liking honestly

500# or 550# all around

think i was 650f/750r w/ no sways and it was near perfect

I think I'll probably start in the 450fr 500-550rr range since it's still a DD.

[D_Eclipse9916]

think i was 650f/750r w/ no sways and it was near perfect. nobody has ever convinced me sways are better than springs. sure, it's easy to adjust them, but you're basically making your car a mustang

A high enough spring rate without sway bars that reduces side-to-side roll sufficiently will adversely affect weight transfer for acceleration and decelleration. You technically do want *some* weight transfer during these actions to increase loading on the tires, although FWD acceleration is different. Then again sway bars introduces stiction and an upward spring force on the opposite side. Also a smaller sway bar or no sway bar seems to allow the suspension to articulate independently of each other, absorbing potholes, undulations in pavement, and curbing much better. In practical use (not textbook use) its a wash from what ive seen. So I tend to agree with you in my limited suspension knowledge.

[Goodspeed]

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but are Koni Yellows/Races or whatever magically valved to accept everything from a 250#-750# spring, while providing optimal damping and ride characteristics for both and everything in between?

[Steve85]

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but are Koni Yellows/Races or whatever magically valved to accept everything from a 250#-750# spring, while providing optimal damping and ride characteristics for both and everything in between?

They offer an orange OE replacement, red which is a better ride shock, good with lowering springs, a yellow sport for more aggressive setups and a race version for very aggressive setups. The sport and race yellows even have the same part # just use "race" or "sport" as a suffix.

[D_Eclipse9916]

I think what he is pointing out is that Konis are a good "generic" shock for cheap. Getting it revalved would have it specifically tuned for the spring rates it will be running. This is the problem with usual off the shelf Bilsteins. Theres typically a very narrow range of springs that should be used properly with a shock. But what do you expect for a suspension under a grand?

[Goodspeed]

Well, I was touching on the fact that it boggles my mind that everyone and their brodawg seems to be running some form of off-the-shelf Koni with whatever spring they want and its the "setup" to get - nevermind matching rate to valving.

Buying a used set of Bilsteins, sending them to Stewart Development in NC for a revalve, and running either used GC or ebay coils can get you a setup near or just under a grand.

[Steve85]

About the shocks...Koni are adjustable so they can be suited for several different spring rates and conditions. The Bilstein can be custom valved, but for exactly what conditions? And when one is faced with different conditions...now what? There is of course the argument that if you don;t know what you're doing, having adjust-ability can be worse. I actually took my Koni adjustables off the Vette in favor of the Bilstein designed for the Z51 performance suspension package because I trusted Bilstein to get it more right than myself. But ultimately it's up to the user to learn. So, most of the autox/roadracers end up with Koni/GC, which is also under a grand. The "brodawgs" just copy it and instead of buying springs to make the car work, they buy the mostest low spring which is usually too soft for the Koni.

New business: The need for new pads comes at a good time. To pass inspection and get ready for VIR I am replacing rear pads with Duracrap Gold (cuz us C4 owners can't have enough gold) and some Hawk HPS up front. HPS seem to fit the street tire on track / DD - purpose.

I did the rear pads tonight. I hate the screw in pistons, mostly because I don't have the tool. I used a seal puller with vice grips on the handle for leverage. I prefer to just squeeze pistons in with channel locks. The left rear caliper decided to stop going in as I was turning it which is just BS. I eventually got it to go in the fraction of an inch more I needed but lots'o time was lost.

I'm also going to throw a cap, rotor and some new plugs in. I've put 80k on it (it's at 168k) and quite frankly have no idea when that stuff was last done.

[ScottyB]

About the shocks...Koni are adjustable so they can be suited for several different spring rates and conditions. The Bilstein can be custom valved, but for exactly what conditions? And when one is faced with different conditions...now what? There is of course the argument that if you don;t know what you're doing, having adjust-ability can be worse.

do you see yourself changing spring rates often? if not i'd just get whatever shock you can tune for your spring the cheapest and just set-and-forget. there should be enough people who have developed the chassis that you can probably just research what could work for you.

on the other hand it would be pretty cool to have 2 sets of springs for road or track, and just twist the konis to suit.

[Steve85]

No, I don't think I personally will often, but given a similar price for the shocks I think it makes sense to be able to make the adjustment. Just as a precaution if nothing else, if I choose spring rate A and decide I'm better off with B, I have a shock that can work with me. Otherwise, I'm sending the shock back for a revalve. In terms of what was driving that statement in general, there are definitely guys who are changing springs often enough to give an adjustable shock an advantage over a custom valved one.

And DG, I wasn't trying to be a dick, I was pretty frustrated last night, just relating what I've read are the reasons so many of the rr/autox/tt guys who are chasing every tenth in every condition run the Koni/GC setup. Well, the ones who aren't spending 2-4K on shocks/springs anyway. The sideways flat brimmers just copy it in an effort to express their individuality and coolness through conformity.

In researching what the HondAcura guys are using I actually came across a thread where the guy was doing exactly what you said, sending his shocks to Stewart. He was asked all kinds of very technical questions like motion ratios and such, some terms I have never even heard. I'm interested in how it turns out, but the whole coil-over thing probably isn't going to happen anytime soon. I'm more interested in getting the other car sorted but wanted to do some research in case I come across something I can't pass up :wink: .

And this morning I got:


Prolly an O2 sensor or the cat which are likely originals. I'll be code checkin' tonight.

[Steve85]

Code checked at AZ, P0420, catalyst efficiency. Most often a cat it seems. Maintenance list is growing a bit...

[Maengelito]

P0420 was like clockwork on my NB Miata. Just get a spark plug defouler for the 2nd O2 sensor.

[.RJ]

Just buy the Konis, they'll handle whatever springs you'll want on the street out of the box. Just pay attention to ride height/suspension travel, anything will ride like crap if you're on the bumpstops all the time.

I can go into more detail later, but thats the short answer, I used Konis on a bunch of different cars/spring rates/valvings and with the right valving they're not even that bad on the street with 800-900# springs.

[Evan]

Well, I was touching on the fact that it boggles my mind that everyone and their brodawg seems to be running some form of off-the-shelf Koni with whatever spring they want and its the "setup" to get - nevermind matching rate to valving.

Buying a used set of Bilsteins, sending them to Stewart Development in NC for a revalve, and running either used GC or ebay coils can get you a setup near or just under a grand.

it boggles your mind that an adjustable damping shock can handle more than 1 spring rate? :?:


did you read on the internet that real srs bzns street suspension has custom valved shocks?

[Goodspeed]

Well, I was touching on the fact that it boggles my mind that everyone and their brodawg seems to be running some form of off-the-shelf Koni with whatever spring they want and its the "setup" to get - nevermind matching rate to valving.

Buying a used set of Bilsteins, sending them to Stewart Development in NC for a revalve, and running either used GC or ebay coils can get you a setup near or just under a grand.

it boggles your mind that an adjustable damping shock can handle more than 1 spring rate? :?:


did you read on the internet that real srs bzns street suspension has custom valved shocks?

Looking at his needs, and thinking objectively about suspensions (however, I'm no expert), I just don't see how clicking from 1 to 5 or vice versa for both compression/rebound is an "optimal" setup when you're running the same spring all the time. Add to the fact that its common knowledge that a lot of those adjusters do nothing or don't serve to match your shocks nearly as much as most think and setups like that don't make a lot of sense to me. Now, I know Konis are high quality, but still :dunno: .

From my research (and my needs, which are close to his), I find more sense in a properly valved/matched setup that you don't dick with. A custom-valved shock and matched spring will have an actual force curve closely matched to the ideal curve for your setup/speed range, you can get a *very* compliant ride for your chosen spring rate, and you can still haul ass and bring national Solo titles home like the Fat Cat setups. And when its your thousand dollars all the same, wouldn't you rather have something designed and built to your specs rather than relying on the fiddly little plastic knob to do something? Fixed setups like that of course won't be ideal in all situations, but I'm convinced that for what he is using the car for, it would be more ideal than messing with knobs and hoping that they're doing something.

[Mike]

but he's not building a purpose-built vehicle. he still drives it to work. the clicks on quality stuff DO do stuff.

i put the following together A BILLION years ago when i cared: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1104049">http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1104049</a><!-- m -->