450 mpg car

[terdcivic]

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So this story was on CNN today about a high school kid and a mentor/teacher that used an old Indy car to build a ~450mpg car.

This thing looks incredibly impractical and uncomfortable, but also very badass. The car appears to still have at least some of the Indy car safety equipment like the crash pod, but any other car would decimate it in a bumper to bumper accident. The student mentions that it's pretty quick...and it probably is very quick if it has any kind of power at all, considering it probably wieghs a bit more than a motorcycle.

This got me thinking...would I be willing to sacrifice comfort and safety for a car that would barely need to be fueled? I already have to an extent: my car has no air conditioning or power steering, has a fairly stiff suspension and no sound deadening. I don't think I would go to this extreme, but i would definitely be winning to give up a ton of performance and comfort for an extremely efficient car.

I'd also be interested in how they figured the "equivalent to 300mpg" figure in the first test and 450 figure. Can anyone shed some light on this?

I googled another competition and got this:

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A quote from the article:

"For the second year in a row, the student team from Laval University in Quebec, Canada, took home the grand prize. It tallied 2,487 miles per gallon"

[WRXtranceformed]

I voted no, simply because I drive so much. It's kind of a catch-22 in that it would be nice to not have to fill up so often, but I would not want to sacrifice any safety or comfort features just to not need to stop at the pump as much. If I could afford a car like the Fisker Karma or one of the newer gas-electric hybrids that is still sporty and luxurious then I think that would be the best compromise, but until the range and recharge time bumps up a bit on pure electric cars I don't see them being a viable commuting option for a lot of people unless they have a very short territory to drive around in (ie a metro area without much travel outside of town).

[Goodspeed]

Its stuff like this that reaffirms that GM et al could've made a 100mpg car 30 years ago :lol:

[terdcivic]

I would still need a full sized car, but it would be nice having a car that could get me around town while barely using gas. A car like this wouldn't be any less safe than a motorcycle or a bicycle...but i wouldn't need to get all sweaty before work riding my bike.

[Mike]

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[WRXtranceformed]

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[terdcivic]

Those are pretty cool (both the bike and the toyota thing). The thing that appeals to me about the car is how efficient it is as far as aerodynamics. I feel that aerodynamics are really overlooked a lot of times and traded for what designers think is more visually appealing. The smart car, for example: why does it sit so upright and look like a clown car? It has the aerodynamics of a phone booth. Why wouldn't they give it a little more visual appeal, while at the same time giving it far better highway gas mileage?

[Evan]

, but any other car would decimate it in a bumper to bumper accident.

more like bumper to face. no thanks, my 2 seaters are already uncomfortably low compared to a SUVs bumper

its not just weight, aero plays a huge role in efficiency. current saftey laws just dont allow the kind of aero that you need to achieve that kind of mpg.

[D_Eclipse9916]

, but any other car would decimate it in a bumper to bumper accident.

more like bumper to face. no thanks, my 2 seaters are already uncomfortably low compared to a SUVs bumper

its not just weight, aero plays a huge role in efficiency. current saftey laws just dont allow the kind of aero that you need to achieve that kind of mpg.

+1 I hear a lot of bullshit about blah blah blah the big 3 could be making cars that get over 100mpg+ etc etc. Yet the public demands all these laws, airbags, front/rear crumple zones, emissiosn equipment, minum bumper heights, frontal area for pedestrian accidents etc etc. Okay....so we demand that the manufactureres making big frontal areas with the aero of a brick, we then tax the engine with a million emissions equipment parts, then laden it down with weight for airbags, collapsible steering columns, safety glass, etc. Yeah psshh the Big 3 definitely can make a 100mpg car with all that, I heard they also figured out the cure to aids, but itd be bad for SUV business.

[BLINGMW]

The smart car, for example: why does it sit so upright and look like a clown car? It has the aerodynamics of a phone booth.

That has to come from the fact that it was designed as a European city car, and a selling point's how short it is. Parking's easier. Occupants need to be pretty upright to do this. 70mph on a US highway isn't what it was designed for.

I'm really only interested in seeing more reasonable middle ground. No, I'm not interested in "extreme" mileage. Hooray, you built a totally impractical car that gets 100+ MPG. Those have already existed for years, they're called 49cc scooters. I would LOVE a car that weighs half what mine does and has fewer features if that meant it got 60MPG. Heck, we nearly had these cars in the 80s.


Certainly we can improve on the Festiva a little with 30 years more technology? Certainly asking that it be RWD and fun to drive wouldn't be asking too much.

And dammit, where THE HELL ARE THE TURBO DIESELS. Thanks US gov for making particulate emissions standards so ridiculous. :finger:

[terdcivic]

I'm really only interested in seeing more reasonable middle ground. Hooray, you built a totally impractical car that gets 100+ MPG. Those have already existed for years, they're called 49cc scooters. I would LOVE a car that weighs half what mine does and has fewer features if that meant it got 60MPG. Heck, we nearly had these cars in the 80s.

Certainly we can improve on the Festiva a little with 30 years more technology?

And dammit, where THE HELL ARE THE TURBO DIESELS. Thanks US gov for making particulate emissions standards so ridiculous. :finger:

I totally agree...there is no middle ground here. The CRX of the late '80s got equal or better gas milage than a prius with old technolog because it was simple, light, and small/aerodynamic. Even with all the new safetly requirements and emissions standards there should be more efficient small cars.

Imagine a honda fit (same engine) with a lighter body and better aeros. I dont need all that extra interior space, and i actually prefer sitting lower...sitting upright makes me feel like im in a minivan. I would bet that if some R&D went into a car like that then it would be over 50mpg using conventional technology.
Instead Honda released the CRZ...a hybrid that makes less than 40mpg on the highway; is that a joke?

[Mike]

my gti is fairly comparable to the crz on the highway... and weighs a ton... and goes pretty well. what a joke.

[HAULN-SS]

ha..i saw that CRZ..i thought it was a joke too.. They went on and on in the article about how cool it was going to be, then totally underwhelmed with a combined rating of 33mpg or something

[Mike]

their big thing is "it has an exhaust note that doesn't sound like an electric! woo! exciting!" except... so does my ass.

[balactm]

Dave, There are several guys from the JMU Alternative Fuel Vehicle Lab (and i'm sure at some point Peter will chime in) that took place in the super mileage competition (or at least built the car for it) and got over 1000 mpg. It's based on weight, aerodynamics, and the fuel injection. They use microsquirt to control the amount of fuel being burned. It's pretty much doing the complete opposite of what you did to your engine. Hell, I got 42 mpg in my old civic. fuck a hybrid, buy a 92-95 civic. Even the hf crx's got like 50+ with the dual point fuel injection and lightweight. Anyways, I think last year's team worked on the microsquirt and ended up calculating out 1500 mpg or something crazy like that. They never actually tested it because they never entered the competition, but using extensive fomulas with drag coefficient's and all that, it's actually a fairly accurate guess. By the by, when do you get back in town?

[terdcivic]

I'll be back by Saturday.

That's pretty awesome to be able to get that kind of efficiency. What exactly is microsquirt and what are the reasons for it not being used mainstream?

And I'm thinking that I might actually get worse gas mileage in a CRZ than what I do now, at least on the highway.

[balactm]

Microsquirt is like megasquirt (which peter uses in his xr4ti i believe) and i believe it's a fuel injection program type thing. I think it's like a standalone computer that controls more components of the fuel injection system and id on't think they use them mainstream because it's pretty expensive. and you probably do get better mileage than a crz, those d series motors are awesome on gas. especially with an overdrive.

[Gs dewd]

I voted yes. For shit sakes, if I was worried about comfort and safety I wouldn't own half the crap I do.

[DierwulfBL]

for the record the CRX HF came with a 1.5l SOHC MPFI (4 injectors) and i think they claimed like 42mpg highway. With my current setup I believe the very best gas mileage I've recorded was right near 50mpg. Although now that I'm doing far less highway driving and more city driving I rarely see over 39mpg and have seen as low as 36mpg. This is where the hybrids really excel. My girlfriend has a civic hybrid (believe the curb weight is over 5k lbs o.O) and she rarely sees under 40mpg even with all city driving. But then again my CRX would stomp her car in a race :-D ROFL

[terdcivic]

for the record the CRX HF came with a 1.5l SOHC MPFI (4 injectors) and i think they claimed like 42mpg highway. With my current setup I believe the very best gas mileage I've recorded was right near 50mpg. Although now that I'm doing far less highway driving and more city driving I rarely see over 39mpg and have seen as low as 36mpg. This is where the hybrids really excel. My girlfriend has a civic hybrid (believe the curb weight is over 5k lbs o.O) and she rarely sees under 40mpg even with all city driving. But then again my CRX would stomp her car in a race :-D ROFL

The civic hybrid is only about 2800lbs lol.
But yea you're right about the better mileage with stop and go driving. Since the EPA does average mpg now the best way to up that number is to increase city mpg.