Your Apple Laptop - Attn: Jack

[Evan]

I just did a quick cost comparison between an HP laptop and the Macbooks out of my own curiosity.

Comparing the macbook black to an HP at comparable specs
(the HP actually has a better screen, better graphics, and a faster CPU)

mac: $1500
HP: $738

EDIT: $1650 to $800 with 2gb ram
-$100 for apple student discount
-$? for ebaying Nano

btw the HP price is a 30% off deal thats good through tomorrow.

wow, even I was surprised. Thats quite a difference.
No hate intended, take it as you will. I realize some people value the mac experience and thats worth it.
personally I view a computer as a tool.

(btw the 2 HP laptops I have used under heavy work conditions and travel have been the best Ive ever had, and the IT guys responsible for maintaining them at my last company agree)

[.RJ]

Does apple still have a student discount?

[G.Irish]

Does apple still have a student discount?

Until September 16th. You get $100 off, a free Ipod Nano ($199 with mail-in rebate), and a free canon printer/scanner ($100 with mail-in).

[Ginger]

Yeah, but it's not for much money.

*edit* actual student discount does not expire. Nano deal does.

[BLINGMW]

For you Apple users - are those services dis-ablebleble? I'm sure there are quite a few pieces on there I just don't care about.

Sure, but with the cost of RAM I've not spent much time bothering with it. I guess I've become rather lazy with my computing, gone are the days of picking out extensions one by one, having different boot sequences, it's all just too fast and cheap. But you can disable services either directly through the unix terminal (I don't know enough about it), or there are utilities out there to help you with it. I used the popular TinkerTool on this laptop to simplify some graphical stuff and get this 800mhz G4 to keep up a bit better. But there's no point on the Intel ones IMO, the interface is very snappy, and boot times are sub 15 sec.

FWIW, for my 2ghz iMac, doing similar things to what you describe, it doesn't come close to using its 1 gig of RAM when running as a PC or Mac, and I have done a little photoshop while running other things without issue. And this laptop has 640MB which has brought it's paging to disk to a pretty low level. However, I don't do any serious "photography stuff", so if you plan on working with multiple 50MB+ images at the same time, maybe you'll need more than 1gig.

EDIT: $1650 to $800 with 2gb ram
-$100 for apple student discount
-$? for ebaying Nano

-$200 for just sticking with white.

And what's better about the HP's display? You mean that it's bigger? Otherwise I'd be surprised as Apple uses excellent displays. Not like the absolute shite display on my Dell at work, holy crap. But I haven't used an HP in a while.

[ViPER1313]

IMO the "Mac Experience" is a way over-hyped marketing campaign. Sadly, this year CampusNet had about as many Core-Duo Macbooks come in for service as Dell laptops. Dells came in for bad sectors on HDs or viruses (mostly viruses....and mostly from sorority girls who wanted to "See awesome AIM pictures") where the user could usually recover the data. Macs came in for fucked up BIOS flashes that Apple pushed over its auto update service or random OS failures that usually caused major data loss. The older G3 and G4 Macboosks were pretty solid but the newer ones seemed to suck major ass. MO they arIe not worth the price premium that Mac wants to charge.

Boot camp is cool though........

[Evan]

EDIT: $1650 to $800 with 2gb ram
-$100 for apple student discount
-$? for ebaying Nano

-$200 for just sticking with white.

no, the black has a bigger hard drive. equal in size to the HPs default included hard drive. used for direct comparison purposes of course.

And what's better about the HP's display? You mean that it's bigger? Otherwise I'd be surprised as Apple uses excellent displays. Not like the absolute shite display on my Dell at work, holy crap. But I haven't used an HP in a while.

bigger, an inch makes a pretty big difference, IMO I wouldnt go below 14" (i dont see apples res listed but i assume they are the same)
same screen as on my work laptop and its great.
It all just adds up, the nvidia graphics on the HP is some of the best you can get in a laptop. the onboard integrated shared memory graphics on the apple is bottom of the barrell.
I think there is an option on the HP to downgrade to the onboard graphics like the apple, taking off $75 if you want a direct comparison in that regard.

like i said, im not starting a flame war here, just putting some figures on the table. for those that love macs and are willing to pay the premium, more power to you.

[Goodspeed]

Well, I agree with the stupidity of Mac trendiness. If you don't buy into the hype, they are great computers. But make no mistake, you are paying a premium for the "mac experience" and I do think it is worth it from my perspective. I don't like them for their hip trendiness or Apple's contribution to the environment, I like them for their ease of usability, reliability, and quality. Frankly I could care less about hidden programs (which more often than not I find helpful anyways) or other such "techno-geek" issues which in reality don't really affect the user at all, unless you choose to make a big deal out of it.

Worth the price in value? Its up to you. I notice this topic comes up every few weeks and my opinion is always the same. If you want to fret over the technical details vs. price go ahead, but I payed the price and have never regretted doing so.

[WRXtranceformed]

I fucking hate the Mac operating systems and the user interfaces they come up with. More so than the garbage that Microsoft puts out. I've played around with the highest end / fastest of both types of computers, and I always come back to Windows based PCs.

I'm not necessarily saying it's not worth it to get a Mac, or that they suck altogether... I'm just saying that I personally hate using Mac products (including iPods and iTunes) for my own reasons. Different strokes for different folks!

[JackoliciousLegs]

The only reason macs respond better to more ram is they load so many damn services, or whatever the hell they're called.

They're called processes. That's the original name for a running instance of an application. Services is the Windows name for it.
At idle, my machine uses ~350MB of RAM.

Perhaps by useless crap, you mean things like AppleSpell (integrated spell check into any cocoa app), the dock (10MB of useless eye candy), or maybe the quartz subsystem (all that fancy gui UI stuff). It's really killing the CPU... and the performance of the machine...

btw, screencapture is the built in print screen which is 10x better than the built in windows one... it's the one hogging the pagefile.

Macs use a lot of RAM. It does *NOT* make their interface sluggish. In fact, most people are surprised at the "snappiness" of the interface. My aunt and uncle came into town and fell in love with my MBP today as a matter of fact.

I was such a fan of windows until I really tried a Mac. I would not be this adamant about it if I didn't truly believe that they are far superior. I thought I'd miss windows and windows apps. I miss NOTHING about my windows experience.

Evan, your comparison is bogus. You compared a larger, MUCH bulkier hunker of a laptop against the macbook. If you want to go spec for spec, you're better of comparing the hp dv2500 series. It's a slightly smaller screen, but uses more similar components. It's $900 vs the MacBook's 1000. It has a 160GB HD over the MB's 80. That's about where the HP's advantages end. That particular HP has a very nice 12.1. The MB has a 13 in a similar form factor. The Mac doesn't come preloaded with dogshit software to really slow down your machine (i.e. useless services... Derek). It doesn't come with free trialware versions of antivirus software (it doesn't need it). It comes with no superfluous internet trials. It comes with amazing support. (MB's had some minor problems right after launch, but that's it). It comes with an iSight built in. You'll use it. It comes with a remote (I use this damn thing ALLL the time).

Ok, back to the real issue... You get the idea. You know you're paying a slight premium for the Apple logo. You're not paying 200% of a normal laptop. You get things that you don't get in other laptops. You get a smaller form factor. Better reliability. No viruses. OSX doesn't bog down after a year of use. You get a built in camera. The most amazing part about it all. The shit just fucking works. I never have to stumble for a driver. I never have to scan shit for viruses. I use my computer for what I bought it for. I haven't had to reformat once since I've had a Mac. I don't dive into the techie settings. I open it up and it works. I hop on a wireless network and it works. I can count the number of times I've had to kill a task manually in two years on one hand.

I'm one of the cheapest bastards you'll ever meet. I HATE spending money. You know what I hate more? Inefficiency. I will never hesitate to buy a Mac as my next computer. I'll pay the 10-20% premium for the headaches that I've saved

Oh, PS Evan, just reread. The black is overpriced because it's an "exclusive" model. I think that's BS too for the record. It's not fair to use the exclusive model in a comparo. Might as well compare that to the Acer Ferrari edition laptops.

Oh, and as far as gripes with the Apple interface... it's always hard switching when you're so used to one system. It took me a week or two to start feeling almost as home as I did in Windows. Now, I struggle to go back.

The only viable argument that I can't refute is that Macs don't have much support for games. Since you're looking at MB's, I'm guessing you're not really into games. The only real option is to dual boot into windows for games. For the record though, my friend plays bioshock all the time on his MBP with the settings cranked.

[JackoliciousLegs]

Oh, and because I haven't beat this to death enough. I just created a new user to do a test. (This is all you have to do to "start over"... no reformat needed... just create a new user and delete the old one... still haven't needed to do this either). I wanted to see what it looked like when you first started the machine for the first time ever. It's got spotlight. The global search that searches EVERYTHING *fast*. Photobooth (yes, you'll use it). iCal (AMAZING calendar software). iMovie (i used this too). iPhoto (great photo organizer). iTunes (you'll get used to it if you're used to winamp.. I've got it set up with hotkeys and all). Address Book, Mail (no viruses like Outlook express), Safari (world's only standards compliant browser). iChat (AIM and video chat). Built in Oxford dictionary. Built in spell check. This thing rocks...

[Ginger]

OK - I've got it down to two laptops.

The basic MacBook ($1000 model). If I buy nw, free Nano and $100 rebate on a $100 printer (so, free printer). I don't have a home printer, and I already have a functioning 1G Nano... take that for what you will.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://store.apple.com/AppleStore/WebObjects/EducationIndividualCustom.woa/6454006/wo/4e5eiroLrsVd2Xeq7qgVjr3CU2W/1.?p=0">http://store.apple.com/AppleStore/WebOb ... U2W/1.?p=0</a><!-- m -->

Yes, the Apple peaks my bling-O-meter. I would be walking out the door at $999+tax (~$1050).

Evan hit me on the HP, which I can get a sizable discount on, and my bling meter went off again:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_can_series.do?storeName=computer_store&category=notebooks&a1=Usage&v1=Travel%2Fmobility&series_name=tx1000z_series">http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopp ... 00z_series</a><!-- m -->

Something that occurred to me, in the wake of my BlingEpiphany, is that I take a lot of Theory Based graph notes for my economics courses. I've used Vista and know that it has a native application (in addition, I'm sure there is an aftermarket for this) for using the stylus and touch screen... .the HP supports touch screen. It runs through the gamut of cool features, but it pretty much covers everything the MacBook does and a little more (not worth debating).

The HP would come to be at just a hair over a grand ($1005 shipped).

Debate.

[Andy]

From what I've priced out and researched, Macbooks are just touch bit more expensive than a comparable PC once you factor in the software. Factoring discounts for dell and Apple, the dell was 43 bucks cheaper with a comparable setup but I would've had to buy virus protection and none of the cool photo/movie software that Apple includes.

What I'm really banking on and hoping for is increased virus protection.

I just bought my mom a Toshiba and while Vista has really integrated a bunch of awesome features (very Mac like GUI).

[Ginger]

Afterthought

I like DVD's and movies. I don't like my old Gateway LCD... it's shite. Are the displays and graphics processors largely equal between these 2 notebooks? Would I notice an appreciable difference in viewing between one or the other?

[Andy]

The price for the HP is before you customize it. What specs are you choosing? Also, tablet pc's are cool if you're okay with being a douchebag.

For my own personal knowledge, aren't the AMD 64x2's slower than Intel's Core2Duo? That's what the interweb tells me

[Evan]

hey're called processes. That's the original name for a running instance of an application. Services is the Windows name for it.

services and processes are different Jack. What was your major again?

Evan, your comparison is bogus. You compared a larger, MUCH bulkier hunker of a laptop against the macbook.

The HP is slightly thinner, .35 inches wider and .4 inches deeper. If you call that "MUCH buliker hunkier" (and you get a bigger screen as a benefit) then you really are freebasing in the apple kool aid. But I guess we already knew that.

If you want to go spec for spec, you're better of comparing the hp dv2500 series. It's a slightly smaller screen, but uses more similar components.

lol, so you tell me my comparison is bogus for saying the macbook is smaller, so you compare the macbook to a smaller HP? Thats classic.
Ultimately the moral of the story is that apple doesnt allow you to choose. You're stuck with 13". HP you can pick a 12" ultraportable or the 14"
(and the HP comes with a camera too, not like anyone other than 14 year old girls on AOL would use one)

Oh, PS Evan, just reread. The black is overpriced because it's an "exclusive" model. I think that's BS too for the record. It's not fair to use the exclusive model in a comparo. Might as well compare that to the Acer Ferrari edition laptops.

as I already said, the black has a 160gb hard drive which is directly comparable. my HP is black so I guess that means its special too. feel free to swap out the black for the 120gb white and have yet another point where the apple is inferior.

Im no HP fanboy, I threw this example out with very little research when I saw they were having a good promotion, but there are usually deals to be had on PCs. Like the 40% off Dell promotion that they run about once a year. I know some people here got crazy deals then. Apple almost never (if ever?) runs any sales and price fixes at retailers.

[Ginger]

The price for the HP is before you customize it. What specs are you choosing? Also, tablet pc's are cool if you're okay with being a douchebag.

For my own personal knowledge, aren't the AMD 64x2's slower than Intel's Core2Duo? That's what the interweb tells me

The HP price I quoted was to my door all discounts applied, spec'd out the way I customized it.

As for being a tablet dbag... I'm ok with that

I've got no clue about processor speed... all I know is that it's all probably a lot faster than I need

[Evan]

The price for the HP is before you customize it. What specs are you choosing?

btw the HP price is a 30% off deal thats good through tomorrow.

play around with the config. as long as its $1k or over you get the 30%

[Ginger]

Evan - is that good through tomorrow... or today?

[Evan]

I thought it was good through today, but looking at it again it looks as though it runs out after X orders. So maybe today or tomorrow? Lots of buzz about the deal so it may not be around for much longer?