Honda tuning in H-Burg?

[derilict]

I know, I've been MIA for a while, but I went to the last meeting and I'm gonna pay my dues! And of course rally some people for the car show.

So my Civic is running like pure asshole. We hooked up an Apex'i SAFC to it, but then I found out my roomate that sold me the car forgot to put an O2 sensor on it. No comment, he built the car in a hurry to make it back to school last Aug. Anyways, anyone have a wide-band O2 sensor or know of where I can snag one to at least get this thing running in the right ballpark? Or, of anyone in the H'burg area that tunes Honda's?

Free 6 pack to the first one with a good answer. Hahha, j/k. But we can drink.

[.RJ]

Whats in the car? Mods?

Hook an O2 sensor up to it, and make sure the SAFC is properly wired (i.e. soldered connections), change all the settings to 0 and see how it goes.

[derilict]

B20 block with ARP head and rod bolts, ported/polished/shaved/over-size valve LS head, stage 3 Crower cams/retainers/springs, Clutchmasters lightened flyewheel/stage I clutch, Si Tranny (forgot the code), some mystery "Modified" ECU, Apex'i SAFC, AEM 3" intake/DC sports header/Greddy Power Extreme cat back/high-flow cat, Eibach springs/adjustable shocks. I think that's it.

Thanks RJ. Yeah, we've unplugged the battery and let eveything re-set and put the AFC back to zero. It's just hard as shit to "tune" a car by listening to it/smelling the exhaust. My cousin as a Honda tech with a wide-band, but he's in Richmond and neither of us can fit the trip in to our schedules. So I'm gonna scrounge around for a wide-band O2 sensor with a read out. Unless anyone has some other ideas? Someone call me stupid if I'm going the wrong direction here. Hehehe.

[.RJ]

Does it have a stock O2 sensor in it? it will run like shit no matter what if thats not in the exhaust.

With those mods, ditch the mystery ECU + SAFC - Take it up to JE in Baltimore and shell out for a Hondata ECU.

[D_Eclipse9916]

yeah S-AFC tuning is seriously a piece of shit, ive tuned a bunch of s-afc and its REALLY hard to work around that as the ECU is thinking ooh less air, lets run more timing. So your always having to work around timing, which really dicks with the tune. Especially when you really start pushing the edge of it.

And really tuning hard without a wideband is not a good idea, you have no idea how lean you are getting, what kind of knock sensor are you running on it? IF your just tuning around a mystery ECU, that makes it more difficult. And tuning by listening??? good lord, never.

If your just looking for a wideband replacement sensor, I forget the part number, but you can just order one from advanced auto. If your looking for a full readout, your gonna need a system. I like my PLX, but there is a newer one out there, the NGK AFX wideband controller. which is also cheaper.

And maybe your talking about the rear o2?

If you have the money, ditch the mystery ecu and get a nice p28 ecu and get hondata, youll thank yourself later. Also, get someone to help you, but tune yourself, youll feel much better about it and it will take much longer, but everytime you change something on your setup, youll know how to change it. Youll also learn a ton about how an engine and fuel setup ACTUALLY works. I really hadnt ever thougtht about global, deadtimes, the function of 1:1 afprs, fuel pressure, VE, if not for doing my own tuning. Unfortunately I keep changing my setup every other day, fucking up my tuning, so im constantly tuning. A reason why im starting to stop modifying my engine, is because I want something consistent that I can actually tune very well and put out some nice numbers without them changing the next day.

[derilict]

It currently has NO O2 sensor, thus the super shitty running. Which is really weird, because it ran fine about a month ago. And by "fine" I mean it needed to be tuned, but it actually idled and didn't load up all the friggin time. Yeah, I don't like the AFC tuning either, but it came with the car so I figured I might as well hook it up. I'd much rather have a something (ECU) creating the actual data instead of something downstreaem 'modifying' it, lying to the comp. and saying "I'm really running less air, I promise." But when you're poor, WTF are you gonna do, right?

Yeah, I've priced a Hondata system, and that's def. out of the question for now, unless any of you guys know where you can pick them up for $50. Ha, that was a joke. And there are other tuning tools too, I forgot what the software is called. Socket the ECU, then you can burn the chip and take it in and out, log all the data, etc.

Don't worry, we were only "tuning" by ear to try and get it to run well enough to get me to class and to work, nothing crazy.

I think we're gonna put the stock cams back in it for now, so I can at least have decently reliable transportation until I get it tuned correctly. It would be nice if $ were not an option, however, that isn't the case.

Thanks for the input peeps.

[D_Eclipse9916]

If you want I could try helping you with the s-afc... But I am worried because do you have a data logger or anything so you actually know whats going on?

[derilict]

Thanks bro. No, don't have anything other than the AFC. I'm waiting to hear back from my cousin about what the guy he knows tunes with. I know that guy has the EMPRO wiring, datalogger, software, etc. And my cousin has several chips we can burn, I mean those are only a few bucks. Hehehe.

You or anyone else checked out Neptune, Crome, or the AEM EMS systems? Looks like Neptune is dealer only, which kinda' sucks. AEM looks expensive. Going vrooom costs $.

[.RJ]

Neptune is good, I ran it on my racecar - at the shop that did the work, it was a cheaper install and thats what the tuner preferred.

Dealer only is fine, how often are you going to have to tune the car?

[derilict]

Yeah, I know I'm going to need to tune it at least once more when I put in the high comression pistons, and finally get a T.B. and an I.M. But yeah, I mean I only plan on tuning it a couple times. Unless I get a crazy hair up my ass and decide to do a turbo car instead of an N/A.

How much was the system (Neptune) and the tuning RJ?

[.RJ]

How much was the system (Neptune) and the tuning RJ?

< $600 out the door @ p1 auto. Showed up with car and stock ECU, left with neptune and dino t00n.

[KPWSerpiente]

If you want Hondata + a tune ARFab is in Winchester. I would trust Howard at http://www.arfabrication.com/ for a lot of stuff especially Hondata tuning.

Or go any of the other routes, DJ has already hit upon the real limits of the SAFC and without anything to monitor timing + knock + a/f + airflow you can't really do anything with it anyway.

-T

[derilict]

Sweeeeeeeet. I'll def. have to check that out.

The thing I can't get over is that the car has been on the road since last June. I mean, it never ran 'perfect', but it ran a shit-ton better than it is now. Hell, it even idled. That's why I'm like WTF, because nothing has changed. It's not like I just put the car together and it's running like this because of no tune. That's why I've been going through the grounds to the motor, connections for the sensors, etc. Something happened, and electric shorting is about the only thing I can figure. That or a bad sensor.

[derilict]

Ok, I'm sure you guys are getting sick of my posts, but get over it.

I totally forgot about DryftMotorsports here in the burg, they tune w/ Hondata and what not. I'm assuming they do good work since we're co-hosting the car show with those guys. I'm prolly gonna take the civic in there and see what they think, just wanted to run it by you guys to see if you thought they did good work.

Ok I'm done.

[ScottyB]

i think the consensus is that they're good people. i think DJ worked there? it sure beats driving up to DC to have it done.

[.RJ]

Ask what kind of cars they've tuned, and ask what kind of training the dyno tuner has had - if all he does is spin the dynojet and get you close enough in the a/f ratios then look elsewhere. Getting the ignition timing mapped correctly is where the power and reliability is.

IMHO, look for a shop that has a dynapack or mustang dyno.