I am so doing this when I convert the DSM to track duty....

[white_2kgt]

I have a battery relocation kit, but why run tons of 4-gauge wire to the back, a box, mounting brackets, kill switch...blah blah blah, when I could just go to a small braille or oddyssey battery and save money, weight, and also the small battery allows it to mount right next to the firewall behind the front suspension and atop the subframe for key location.

Its not really a TON of 4ga wiring, at most you are looking at 15' of +, then use the chassis to ground. I mounted my odyssey behind the passenger seat, low and behind center line. If you plan to race you are going to need a kill switch anyway, but yea, for a street car, just mount the little batt somewhere in the engine compartment. I had a problem w/ my odyssey dying if I didn't drive the car for a week, I generally just kept a batter tender on it all the time.

[D_Eclipse9916]

RJ I dont know the exact motion ratios, but I do know that the motion ratio in the rear is much higher than in the fronts, therefore, that is why such a high front spring, along with our weight bias of 60/40 stock.

Also the 700/400 will be on the stiff side, I might go down to about 600 with 350 rear. But no less than a 350, yuo have to remember, we do have weight in the rear compared to a fwd car, because of our rear subframes, differentials, axles blah blah blah, I know you know that.

The konis will be great, and the gcs are probably the spring of choice. If I have money left over I will go with some RRE coaxial spring hats F+R.

The kill switch is only needed in a racing series correct Chad? I thought it wasnt needed in HPDE. Which is where ill be spending at least the next 2-3 years at the very mininum.

[ScottyB]

yeah an odyssey is fine in stock location -- i just figured you'd need some serious cold cranking amps as this is still your DD and an odyssey/braile might not be enough, so it would be better to relocate a full size batt. to the rear.

also 700/400 rates sounds messed up. that would probably work well for an M3 or 240z but for a front heavy awd car i would think closer to 700/700, maybe 600/800. IMO awd cars need more spring out back as you are going to push on corner exit, unless you have a humongous amount of power. i know it's not the same car at all but alot of the tracked S/A4's run a setup of 700/850 or so depending on the engine. similar weight issues as your car but slightly different awd system. a "forgiving" street setup is something like 400/400 for those cars.

edit: what do evo's run? or is it really not the same at all because of their mchperson struts?

do you think you might need an LSD in the rear, or do you already have one? may be handy, not sure though.

[D_Eclipse9916]

Holy crap 600/800? that would absolutely be not even able to handle.

The motion ratios is why the front has to be so much higher than the rear.

Quote "
The rear motion ratio on a 2G is much higher than the motion ratio on the front. A 100lb spring change on the rear is HUGE, where on the front it's not so much. A 100lb spring change is about 0.3Hz on the rear, but only about 0.1Hz on the front."

My stock car has an lsd in the rear and viscous in the center. Nobody ever runs upgraded centers, but they do run Quaife fronts and 4-spider gear centers.

The s4 has a completely different awd setup, also many people dont realize, when losing traction the 2g awd setup biases rearward, and with that stock LSD you dont have to run a crazy rear spring setup. In fact most people say 300 spring is all you need, but I like a little more tail-happy setup in my kind of driving, so a 400 spring is fine with me although more than I need.

Evos also have macpherson struts, so cant go by what they do.

[D_Eclipse9916]

There are stock and aftermarket spring rates, as you can see, my intraxs are weaksauce...

95-96 OEM Stock 2G AWD
Front: 265 #
Rear: 162 # (+/- 8)

97-99 OEM Stock 2G AWD
Front: 246 #
Rear: 151 #

H&R (Race spring) (FWD and AWD share the same rates)
2.0"F, 1.75"R lowering
Front: 430 #
Rear: 260 #

H&R (Sport spring)
1.7"F, 1.4"R lowering
They would not disclose spring rates for these. They explained that there are too many variables to accurately use spring rates. I'm assuming these are comparable to the Sprints.

Eibach ProKit
1.3" lowering
Front: 330 #
Rear: 160 #

Suspension Techniques
1.2ÔÇØ lower
Front: 200 #
Rear: 160 #

Megan Racing
2.0" lowering
Front: 335 #
Rear: 250 #

Eibach Sportline
1.7" lowering
Front: 286 #
Rear: 146 #

Intrax
1.8ÔÇØF, 1.7ÔÇØR lowering
Front: 249 #
Rear: 143 #

Tein S-Tech
1.3ÔÇØF, 1.2ÔÇØR lowering
Front: ? (mixed results)
Rear: ? (mixed results)

Sprint
2.0ÔÇØ or 1.5ÔÇØ lowering (optional)
They would not disclose spring rate information in fear of other manufacturer spin offs. They informed me that they are typically 20-30% stiffer than stock.

[ScottyB]

hmm, that's cool. i didn't realize how different your motion ratios are and the fact that your driveline biases rearward under slippage.

[ButtDyno]

Why don't you see Celicas on track? People don't like them, and for good reason.

The fact that the motor grenades on track may have something to do with it (oil starvation)

john

[.RJ]

Most off the shelf stock-style springs are heavily biased towards understeer... fwiw.

[D_Eclipse9916]

I realize that, but im showing the off the shelf springs are very small spring rates. That people who race these cars run 750/450, 700/400.

[.RJ]

Be a man and throw some 1000#'ers in the rear and no front swaybar

Oh wait... its not a shitbox honda.

[Maengelito]

I have a battery relocation kit, but why run tons of 4-gauge wire to the back, a box, mounting brackets, kill switch...blah blah blah, when I could just go to a small braille or oddyssey battery and save money, weight, and also the small battery allows it to mount right next to the firewall behind the front suspension and atop the subframe for key location.

Its not really a TON of 4ga wiring, at most you are looking at 15' of +, then use the chassis to ground. I mounted my odyssey behind the passenger seat, low and behind center line. If you plan to race you are going to need a kill switch anyway, but yea, for a street car, just mount the little batt somewhere in the engine compartment. I had a problem w/ my odyssey dying if I didn't drive the car for a week, I generally just kept a batter tender on it all the time.

15' of 4ga wiring is pretty heavy. i mean, obviously its not as heavy as a battery, but it could negate much of the benefit of the weight distribution from battery relocation. i know the wiring wouldnt be all in one spot, and would be low in the car, but it just seems like for DE's, its not really necessary.

[white_2kgt]

I have a battery relocation kit, but why run tons of 4-gauge wire to the back, a box, mounting brackets, kill switch...blah blah blah, when I could just go to a small braille or oddyssey battery and save money, weight, and also the small battery allows it to mount right next to the firewall behind the front suspension and atop the subframe for key location.

Its not really a TON of 4ga wiring, at most you are looking at 15' of +, then use the chassis to ground. I mounted my odyssey behind the passenger seat, low and behind center line. If you plan to race you are going to need a kill switch anyway, but yea, for a street car, just mount the little batt somewhere in the engine compartment. I had a problem w/ my odyssey dying if I didn't drive the car for a week, I generally just kept a batter tender on it all the time.

15' of 4ga wiring is pretty heavy. i mean, obviously its not as heavy as a battery, but it could negate much of the benefit of the weight distribution from battery relocation. i know the wiring wouldnt be all in one spot, and would be low in the car, but it just seems like for DE's, its not really necessary.

Depends on the car, for a DE car, I agree. For a front heavy race car where every little bit helps and you have cut all the excess metal you can cut out of the front end and are still 55/45, it's worth it .