I'm properly F'ed...URGENT help guys

[ScottyB]

i'm going to keep this short for the sake of description. don't worry about the end of the video as it isn't important at the moment.

i went to start my car and it flooded with fuel (don't know why). it cranked, caught a sec, then came to a *erk* kind of stop...i knew it was flooded. pulled the plugs, cranked it and shot fuel all over the place (was funny at the time) and hooked it all back up. weird, i thought.

happened again. and finally a third time. after the crank/flood/de-flood/hook it all back up procedure, i realized it was screwed up and pulled the fuse for the fuel pump. after "dry" cranking a few times, i put the fuse back in and she fired up...except she sounded like something was very, very wrong.

this is after i had already let it idle before for a minute so its not fuel/gunk/junk burning off, and there has been ample time for oil pressure to build.

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i'm convinced that at best i have some valves that have hit the pistons. at worst i have bent a rod or two and will face an expensive® teardown. this is a week before i was to happily take the car north for Christmas vacation at my parents place, and right after i had gotten a ton of shit finally working how i wanted on this God forsaken car. any advice would help, guys. Lord knows i need it.

[Andy]

What would bend valves? I don't know anything about 1.8T's but engines don't just bend valves/rods unless something major happened.

I would calmly sit down and not panic. Think it out.

Have you checked the obvious stuff. Is there spark? What sort of repairs were done on it recently that could possibly cause symptoms like this? Then work from there. Maybe a wire came uphooked like your coilpacks or something along those things.

[ScottyB]

thanks Andy i'm trying not to panic but i've been on what feels like a good 6 or 7 hour adrenaline rush. not the good adrenaline either, the kind where you feel like shit is being pumped into your heart by the long ton. i'll do my best to sound reasonable.

ok. i have heard that flooded engines can bend valves...i don't know how that is, i was just throwin it out there. it was such a metallic clatter that my first instinct was "valve soup"

there is spark, as far as i know. ironically, it idles very smoothly. just sounds like death.

[BLINGMW]

ick.... that video SUCKS

[CaptainHenreh]

Not rod knock, sounds like valve noise.

Do a compression test, that'll tell you if it's valves or not.

Could your timing belt have skipped a tooth?

[ScottyB]

ok here's the backstory so maybe someone can make more sense of this:

i had been having an oil sludge issue lately. low oil press. at idle, a fair amount of lifter noise below 2500 rpm. i did alot of searching, and ended up talking to an audi tech with a few decades experience in vw/audis. he recommended the following procedure -- it sounds radical, but there are actually quite a few in the audi, and german car community that have done this with great results:

drain oil
fill engine crankcase to almost overflowing with diesel fuel
let it sit a night
let it drain a night
put cheapo oil in and idle for 20 minutes to flush the remaining diesel out
drain cheapo oil
put in good oil
go on your merry way

the purpose of the diesel is as a great solvent that removes oil varnish and sludge. i followed suit and filled up my crankcase....took quite a bit of diesel. i let it sit a day, and actually let it drain for 2 days before i touched it again, just to be safe. what i thought was the same amount of diesel i put in came out looking like strong iced tea...it had done a little cleaning. i then added the junk oil in order to do the 20 minute idle....and well, the rest is history.

my only thoughts are (A) somehow diesel got into the cylinders, but for some reason didn't drain out, resulting in hydrolocking or (B) the diesel residue in the cylinders combined with broken down gunk made it hard for the car to get started...it started a bit but the whole time it was adding fuel and eventually it was too much fuel.

[ScottyB]

Could your timing belt have skipped a tooth?

i dunno man, you tell me....can an engine turning at idle speed or less stop fast enough to do that?

[CaptainHenreh]

If one of your tensioners failed, it's possible.

A hydrolocked motor isn't going to bend valves. It just doesn't work that way. The pressure from hydrolocking builds when the piston's at TDC (and the valves are closed).

But, I dunno man. Your sludge issue worries me.

[ScottyB]

If one of your tensioners failed, it's possible.

its possible, but the whole timing belt assembly was replaced 15k ago at most. the tensioner was replaced with an updated, better-than-factory one as a matter of fact. the problem is that if it did skip, there's bound to be valve-to-piston contact.

A hydrolocked motor isn't going to bend valves. It just doesn't work that way. The pressure from hydrolocking builds when the piston's at TDC (and the valves are closed).

But, I dunno man. Your sludge issue worries me.

yeah, the bending valves thing, i don't really know how that would work either. i guess that's my worry about a bent rod.....could an engine bend one like that at idle speed or less or do you have to have some revs going pretty good?

[WRXtranceformed]

Best of luck to you Scotty, I know that feeling =( Hopefully it's not as bad as it sounds on the video.

[ViPER1313]

If you are flooding a single cylinder w/ fuel, it could just be a dead injector.... they sound like a loud ass valve tick.

If ALL cylinders are flooded, check the timing belt... it could have skipped a tooth.

My car "floods" occasionally while starting, although it has never messed anything up (common SHO problem.) I have always just opened up the throttle and it starts up second try. I don't see how a flooded engine could mess itself up.

Good luck with all of this - foreign cars scare me :?

[PDenbigh]

Late to the party, but I agree with Rex and Adam on the tming. (Not ignition timing, valve timing.)

Also, adam does have a good point about the injectors, but I've personally never heard one THAT loud.

Take a good long screwdriver and use it as a stethascope (sp?) all aroudn the head and see where the noise is coming from. (If you're not sure how to do this ask and I'll explaine further).

Fromt there you should be able to determine that the noise is coming from the top half of the engine. If it is nothing obivious, take off the valve cover and see what that reviels.

Good luck. Post your fininds as they happen adn we'll do the best we can to help!

Peter

[ScottyB]

thanks for the help guys.

for the record, it wasn't a flood as in, so much fuel the car sputtered to a stop due to being overly rich. it was flooding to where the engine stopped because it seized up. maybe it was so violent that the belt did skip a tooth....it sure sounds like it.

Pete, i tried to do the stethoscope thing last night but i was so scared to let the engine run longer than necessary that i only had the screwdriver on it for a few seconds. i couldn't tell anything conclusive of course.

because of time constraints and lack of proper tools i'm going to call AAA and flatbed it to a good shop nearby for a compression test/oil press. test. we'll see what they find and go on from there.

[D_Eclipse9916]

a compression tester is like 10 bucks...Do that first. If thats not it youve saved yourself a lot of money. Also borrow a timing gun...see if its off.

A big issue in maintenance with timing belt cars is them skipping, breaking and doing that, but to me it doesnt quite sound like you bent a valve, but you cant tell much in a video.

How do you know it flooded, or is that what you thought have might happened? Fuel is gonan spray out when you crank it if you have it open anyway.


So basically my post was completely worthless as pretty much everyone said this before. Good luck!

[NTIman]

Kind of sounds like a Piston making contact with something. Probably not a valve, but a bad bearing could result in piston-head contact. I think its too loud for injectors or valve noise.

[Jeff]

Scotty,
What does the oil look like? Is there any metal in it? How dark is it? What does the gauge show for oil pressure when it is running like that? Sylvia made the astute comment that "it sounds like there is no oil in it" as she decorates our gingerbread house.

Ok, I have heard injectors sound like that when bad, but they usually make a little bit different, kinda "zinging" sound (at least the two I have heard). It could be valvetrain or bottom end. I have heard a spun bearing sound like that in a 3.0L minivan, but usually they clunk a bit more. Maybe a collapsed lifter? I don't know anything about a 1.8t, so I don't know what type of lifters/lash adjusters/whatever they have.

IT JUST HIT ME!- VALVE GUIDE DROPPED!!!! Thats exactly what it sounds like.

Anyway, any more info you could give would be great. About oil condition etc. I assume these are interference engines?

[ScottyB]

ha for some reason the part about Sylvia made me laugh....you two are a good pair, but i digress.

no metal in the oil, it was only a month or two old anyway. i am silly nuts about changing the oil alot as these engines have dark histories when it comes to sludge problems. i know its wasteful but i rarely go over 4000 miles on a round of oil. i use the OEM "big" filters that VW uses for it's diesels, which adds another half quart oil capacity and i always use pure synth. i was thinking the same thing actually -- thought the oil pump took a crap or the screen became clogged...but i'm not getting any low oil pressure warning lamp.

the top end is all hydro lifters. its a 5 valve per cylinder engine so there's typically alot of top end chatter anyway with all those valves bouncing around, but nothing like that awful racket normally. these ARE interference engines unfortunately, however my timing belt and related accessories are barely 15k miles old.

valve guide eh? yikes that sounds shitty. it sucks because i have no experience in diagnosing engines via noise because i've never had the opportunity to screw up many engines :lol: so i'm all speculation at this point.


anyway, "Frau" was coasted (yay for the hill in my lot) onto a flatbed and taken to a trusted mechanic tonight. it was strangely relieving since i can take solice that someone who actually should be allowed under the hood of my car (read: not me) will be able to make it better of course that feeling will likely turn to nausea when i see my bill, but in the scheme of things, it will be a learning experience and hey -- you gotta break a few eggs to make an egg sammich, or however that saying goes. also, i hate driving the explorer. holy crap, just maintaining 70 mph feels like i'm dragging a tercel behind me...on its roof.

[Jeff]

I'm interested to hear what this turns out to be. I am thinking valve guide fo' serious, thats where my money is....and unfortunatly...some of yours. I hope it turns out to be something minor and as cheap as possible to fix Scotty old boy.

I hear what you say about the Exploder too. The van is rather sluggish because of its weight. I took out the muffler (sounds freakin sweet!) but it just sounds like its working really hard to not go that fast now...lol...feels like I am dragging your Exploder and the tracel on its roof behind me! But I picked up 1.5psi of boost and a really cool deep sound. Cruising around at 3,500rpm at 75mph doesn't get much for the gas mileage either! God I hate a 3-speed....anyway, I hope it turns out ok, keep us posted. If you need to borrow a busted TurboDodge just let me know! The NewYorker is running!

[ScottyB]

yeah i'll keep it updated. thanks for the help everyone.

more than anything i just feel stupid. how the heck do i do these things!? lol

as much as i like the daytona i really want to see what comes of the Free Candy van. but that's for another thread of yours i guess.

[WRXtranceformed]

of course that feeling will likely turn to nausea when i see my bill, but in the scheme of things, it will be a learning experience and hey -- you gotta break a few eggs to make an egg sammich, or however that saying goes.

Oh, how I feel and completely understand your pain. Start setting some money aside sir, that built engine rebuild may come sooner than you expected

Keep us posted!!