The Super Official Homeowners Thread

[Tyler.M]

Does the inspection contingency give you any recourse here? It should. You should have all the power in negotiations at this point with that leverage.

[.RJ]

Does the inspection contingency give you any recourse here? It should. You should have all the power in negotiations at this point with that leverage.

It only opens the door for additional negotiations, or to walk away from the deal.  Most of the things are relatively minor, and can be knocked out in a weekend - paint some trim, unclog the gutters, fix a light fixture, etc.  The buyer holds all the cards at this point.

I let a contract expire because the inspection revealed a lot of water damage and the sellers didnt want to get into resolving it - it was a 35 year old house that had wood siding & trim and never had any maintenance done unless something broke and went tits up.  We had planned to renovate the kitchens, baths and floors as soon as we moved in, but I feared we'd eat our budget on replacing rotten window sills and siding instead - we were looking at $10-15k in repairs including a new roof and that was based on what we could see, and with water damage, there's always more.  Sellers offered $5k credit and we walked, wasnt worth it.

The house is such a long term and huge purchase, dont let little things get in the way, but also dont take on huge problems at full market price, either, unless the market is bizarro.

[Apoc]

Yeah, they reduced the price so clearly the market wasn't willing to pay for it. Hard to say if that's because someone else noticed the problem or it was just overpriced. Might be an indicator you have more of an upper hand than you think.

...but also, you don't ever seem to listen to anything anyone says here so I guess I'll just grab my popcorn and watch it unfold?

[Tyler.M]

Yeah, they reduced the price so clearly the market wasn't willing to pay for it. Hard to say if that's because someone else noticed the problem or it was just overpriced. Might be an indicator you have more of an upper hand than you think.

...but also, you don't ever seem to listen to anything anyone says here so I guess I'll just grab my popcorn and watch it unfold?

It's abnormal for a buyer to offer to pay for repairs/split with seller at market price, right? That doesn't seem normal to me.

[Deceus]

Yeah, they reduced the price so clearly the market wasn't willing to pay for it. Hard to say if that's because someone else noticed the problem or it was just overpriced. Might be an indicator you have more of an upper hand than you think.

...but also, you don't ever seem to listen to anything anyone says here so I guess I'll just grab my popcorn and watch it unfold?

They were desperate to sell on a tight timeline. They put in a contingent offer and the clock was ticking. Also their agent apparently wasn't going into the system she was making everyone use to approve any showings. Hell of a combo.

I've listened to everyone.

I have and still am considering renting, it's just not appealing enough for me to drop everything and be my option #1 right now.
I am considering a new agent and will definitely reach out to DJ's uncle, but I'm under contract and can't just switch. I have to settle everything in motion currently and get out of that contract.
I am very much am going to negotiate with the sellers and working with the new agent to get things back on track. When they see that list of minor shit and I extend that olive branch I have no doubt they'll take it.

[Apoc]

Yeah, they reduced the price so clearly the market wasn't willing to pay for it. Hard to say if that's because someone else noticed the problem or it was just overpriced. Might be an indicator you have more of an upper hand than you think.

...but also, you don't ever seem to listen to anything anyone says here so I guess I'll just grab my popcorn and watch it unfold?

It's abnormal for a buyer to offer to pay for repairs/split with seller at market price, right? That doesn't seem normal to me.

Phrased that way, I think so. Generally buyers request a closing cost or price concession based on the findings. It's not always 100% and can be 50% of the cost, but is usually presented as "here's how much money it costs to fix everything and here's how much I'd like you to contribute."

We want to move, but our house requires about $30k in exterior work. I wanted to sell by listing it for $30k less but our broker, who I trust quite a bit, said it would be a massive hassle to deal with buyers on it. His direction, even in the second hottest market in the country, was fix before listing so you don't have to deal with the bullshit... assuming you do get an offer.

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They were desperate to sell on a tight timeline. 

Doesn't sound like they're *that* desperate... or least call their bluff.

[Deceus]

Doesn't sound like they're *that* desperate... or least call their bluff.

Ye, it was easy for them to say that then. My agent never should have gone to their agent with a half-hearted, casual request for a whole house re-pipe without any real context, estimate on actual cost or motivation to sell it properly. It still pisses me off just thinking about it.

"The inspection uncovered 25 items. I only care about 1 and only want you to concede half of what it'll take to fix it." would've fared a lot better than whatever she floated to their agent through a text message.

[.RJ]

It's abnormal for a buyer to offer to pay for repairs/split with seller at market price, right? That doesn't seem normal to me.

The contract will either agree to resolve it, or to put money in at closing and its up to the buyer to do what they want. I would never put money into repairs on a house that I didnt own.

So it highly unusual.

[Deceus]

Definitely working with a real good realtor now. The sellers predictably didn't want to fix anything themselves and were cool with making a concession. However they messaged my realtor early yesterday to say most of the items are "normal wear and tear" and didn't want to pay for them. Not gonna lie, hearing that ruined my day, I was pissed. I just about finally walked away because I figured maybe we'd negotiate the price, maybe they'd take a few small items out themselves or cross them off the list but no. They just completely ignored the list I sent and picked at a few things off the inspection report I didn't even mention... At this point it's pretty clear trying to negotiate with these people is like trying to play chess with a pigeon, I'm done with it. They're either too stupid or simply don't have the cash to actually negotiate and just don't want to say it. Not sure why I'm so surprised, morons and broke people can own homes too I suppose.

My realtor did a good job talking me off the ledge. Most of these items really are far from showstoppers. Hell I can probably address all of them in a single weekend. It just doesn't feel good after putting a good bit of money and a TON of time getting my house move-in ready for my buyers. The report for my house was 2 items long and one had already been addressed. It just "needs" one $20 faucet rebuild kit. It pissed me off further when they said the only thing they were going to negotiate were items currently an issue today. That's why I let the $10k re-pipe slide. That's how negotiations work (as least in my mind). And now they're saying I'm just going to have to deal with the stuff they've neglected... I wasn't asking for fresh coats of paint or anything like that.

My agent was cool though, she listened to me bitch, made it clear she wanted me to walk away happy and was willing to go to bat with anything I wanted. But she also played devil's advocate and tried to put things into prospective. She also mentioned every time we alter terms we're looking at the possibility of them walking away. I would feel pretty stupid if this deal fell through over $2,000 and I was stuck dealing with temp housing or shelling out a ton of money for pet fees and deposits I know I'd never get back. We sat down and looked at the actual issues that needed to be addressed to see if I'd be happy with whatever amount they were going to come back with. They did offer $2,500 which was more then I was expecting after hearing those initial comments. Had they just simply said they were going to meet me half way and not come with some bullshit like "wear and tear" I wouldn't have cared at all. Instead they sent us videos of them shoving a hose into a gutter to, I guess, show us a single section at least kind of drains and a video of them turning the tub on. Apparently the inspector just couldn't find the switch for it but the gutters were a $100 item on my list, the tub wasn't even mentioned and there was another 24 items to account for so it was completely and utterly pointless.

VA appraisal was yesterday, bug inspection today. We're hoping to have everything in place tomorrow morning and finally put this to bed. I'd pay good money to see their faces if the VA comes back and says the re-pipe needs to happen before the sell. It's technically well within the minimum property requirement guidelines for them to do so. All the major systems must be in good shape and have "reasonable future utility". Not so sure what is done in practice though. I'm over it and just ready to put in whatever work is needed. I was planning to anyways but I was hoping for once to catch a break here and have them cover the rest of my closing costs but hey I guess that would just make my life boring.

I can probably even do most of the re-pipe myself. It's not rocket science to run a bunch of straight PEX lines in a tall crawlspace. I'd just run it all alongside the old pipes at whatever pace I feel like and then swap it all over at once or do it in sections. I can have someone double check everything while they do the service main part. The only thing actually behind any drywall is the 2 showers.

[Apoc]

Throughout all these stories everyone is an asshat who's screwing you and you have to be talked off the ledge. Is it possible your expectations or reactions to these situations are disproportionate? It's like I can feel the anxiety through the monitor.

Also, you crazy to do the plumbing yourself.

[.RJ]

If they dont want to do the work themselves - thats fine as lining up a plumber and getting everything sorted before closing is likely a headache - then get the money at closing for the important things and dont worry about the rest. This is moot if the lender flags it and puts a stop on the works, though.

But it sounds like you're caving in, which, is not surprising since you put all your cards on the table at the start and folded up like a cheap paper bag. Your realtor is talking your off the ledge because no sale = no commission.

Figure out what you want, put it in writing with the realtor, and walk away if the sellers cant concede. You say $2k is stupid to lose a house on, well, for the seller its also far dumber to shred the contract and re-list the house.

[Sijray21]

I mean, if you're good at plumbing it can save you a lot of money. In HS I took an hvac class where I sweat solder, laid brick, circuit board repair, and a few other things. Takes a bit of skill, but it really isn't all that difficult.

I think the expectations for negotiations should be eased when you are also in a tight spot (not willing to rent or walk easily).

I only have 1 experience buying a house, but I was in control. I already had a rental place lined up to rent when we were negotiating. We offered $10k under their asking (which was $30k down from their initial published price 4 months prior) and negotiated to $2k under their asking and they threw in a few high end appliances. The appraisal came back at our asking price (appraisal contingency) they offered to cover $2k of the $8k difference. We wanted them to cover the whole thing or we walk and we meant it. They buckled and we got the house for our original asking price. This was also after the seller mentioning to me that they were anxious to get down to their other house in FL asap not knowing I was the buyer; he thought I worked with the agent. So I knew they didn't want to put the house back on the market.

Icing on the cake: the rental place didn't charge me for breaking the lease I never used.

[Deceus]

Throughout all these stories everyone is an asshat who's screwing you and you have to be talked off the ledge. Is it possible your expectations or reactions to these situations are disproportionate? It's like I can feel the anxiety through the monitor.

I definitely overreact to dealing with illogical people/situations for sure. Hence the need to be talked-down. I know it's a flaw of mine, I try to notice/control it but I can only do so much sometimes. I finally talked with a psychiatrist early this year, he was super hesitant to bring it up but he suspect I probably have a mild case of Asperger's, my reply is I'd be more surprised if I didn't and we left it at that. I'm also hopped on adderall these days and it has done wonders for my productively but, as you nailed it, has ramped up my anxiety. Just some extra perspective.

Asking people to not treat this like some kind of PEX vs copper preference definitely wasn't asking too much in my opinion. You'd definitely be hard-pressed to find a licensed plumber to tell you to do anything other than replace it all ASAP vs waiting for the inevitable and fixing it as it fails like they were suggesting. Also asking them to go half on one major repair and ignoring the rest was also fairly reasonable in my mind. I even had a teammate go through the same exact situation as the seller and he said he ended up conceded $5k after his buyers initially wanted $15k.

So in my corner we had a billion dollar lawsuit, another seller and every plumber in the country vs ... 2 realtors trying to make a sell.

Definitely been a little amped this month. Dumping hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars into getting the house move-in ready, then thousands to make it a rental and now looking at thousands to make the new place future-proof, it definitely is getting to me. But getting it out here does help. I feel like your replies in particular help pull me back to center more than you probably realize so thanks for that, seriously.

[Sijray21]

You say $2k is stupid to lose a house on, well, for the seller its also far dumber to shred the contract and re-list the house.

Unless you know the seller's situation. What if they own the house outright and don't mind relisting?

[Deceus]

I only have 1 experience buying a house, but I was in control. I already had a rental place lined up to rent when we were negotiating.

See now that's some smart thinking for sure. Definitely stealing that idea next time. What I should've done was go with a new construction but that comes with it's own set of issues. Would've eased my timeline constraint quite a bit though not dealing with a seller or any issues like the piping. I foolishly anticipated this to go as smoothly as my last buying experience and as smooth as my current selling experience. Last time the sellers had a new born in the house and didn't want any work done on the house before the sell. I understood their concerns, I raised my own, they got quotes and then conceded that amount. I wanted closing costs paid, they wanted a higher offer to do that, so I offer one. Boom done.

Guess I got lucky.

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Unless you know the seller's situation. What if they own the house outright and don't mind relisting?

They lose the house they're trying to buy if this doesn't go through. They let me know that the day I put my offer in and used that to justify the increase due diligence request. That's what makes all this that much more crazy to me.

[Apoc]

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Unless you know the seller's situation. What if they own the house outright and don't mind relisting?

They lose the house they're trying to buy if this doesn't go through. They let me know that the day I put my offer in and used that to justify the increase due diligence request. That's what makes all this that much more crazy to me.

It seemed clear from your posts you were pretty intent on this house. The first indicator was probably that you agreed to a higher due diligence fee. From that point on, they had the upper hand. Ultimately, they called your bluff and benefitted. You really do have to be willing to walk away or any of your negotiations have a good probably of being tested and falling through.

[JPolen01]

Hang on - you said the re-pipe was around $10k initially? Now you are settling for $2500? That's not the middle. Did I miss that?

Also, fuck doing this yourself. I'm all for all repairs and have done some plumbing myself. But you actually want to spend the time moving and settling in and immediately want to re-pipe your new house? That sounds awful.


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[Apoc]

Definitely been a little amped this month. Dumping hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars into getting the house move-in ready, then thousands to make it a rental and now looking at thousands to make the new place future-proof, it definitely is getting to me. But getting it out here does help. I feel like your replies in particular help pull me back to center more than you probably realize so thanks for that, seriously.

No shame in dealing with mental illness or taking medication for it.

[Deceus]

It seemed clear from your posts you were pretty intent on this house. The first indicator was probably that you agreed to a higher due diligence fee. From that point on, they had the upper hand. Ultimately, they called your bluff and benefitted. You really do have to be willing to walk away or any of your negotiations have a good probably of being tested and falling through.

Yeah, in hindsight, putting in an offer before driving down to see it and throwing $4,500 down wasn't the best first move to make if I wanted to be in control hah.

I am definitely caving a bit here but fuck it, I'm really ready to be done. The original plan was to wait for the appraisal and bug report to come back and give them one final chance to concede $5k. Buuut I'm just not that willing to walk. As pissed as I was yesterday, I was watching some downhill/freeride compilations videos on YouTube with the kid and he has been super amped about building a bike trail in the back yard. I was looking for a comparable replace for $400k and just wasn't finding any either. So I'm out $2k, whatever.

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Also, fuck doing this yourself. I'm all for all repairs and have done some plumbing myself. But you actually want to spend the time moving and settling in and immediately want to re-pipe your new house? That sounds awful.


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lol have you seen the projects I undertake? Idk deep down I'm a masochistic.

[.RJ]

I'm really ready to be done.

So are they. And the closer you get to closing, their nuts are just as much in a bind as yours - I was working, and subsequently getting worked, on both ends of this when I moved last, just depends which way its going depending on the market.

Getting $5k at closing, if you're happy with it, is a really reasonable take in a hot market for a known and serious defect that will flood your house if left unattended. Just take a step back, be clear about what you want, and present it in writing on the contract. Fuck negotiationg through texts on a house.