Insurance companies

[Ginger]

a $12k car but we arent going to pay out what you have been paying in" they took your money on that $12k, they are (or should be) required to pay their part of the bargain.

And if you can prove value, they will.

Until you've paid in, in your example, the difference between the ACTUAL value of your vehicle and your theoretical aftermarket additions value then you've got an incentive to defraud the company. Do they not have a right to protect themselves?

You can't create value with an insurance company. If they've got to honor their part of the bargain then you've got to honor yours - and that is to either meet with a representative before insuring your vehicle and agree upon a different than book value of the car, or prove to them that you've got money in aftermarket parts after the fact later.

[Evan]

a $12k car but we arent going to pay out what you have been paying in" they took your money on that $12k, they are (or should be) required to pay their part of the bargain.

And if you can prove value, they will.

you've got it backwards.
if they want proof, they need it before they take your money. bottom line, you pay to insure a $12k car, its a $12k car.
"motivation to defraud" and what not is secondary to the fundamental principle.

[Ginger]

you've got it backwards.
if they want proof, they need it before they take your money. bottom line, you pay to insure a $12k car, its a $12k car.
"motivation to defraud" and what not is secondary to the fundamental principle.

If they want proof all they need to do is put it in your documentation. Nobody's saying that there shouldn't be disclosure of receipt requirement, we're saying that if you want it covered, then you'd better be able to prove it's worth.

[Evan]

and all Im saying is that worth is determined when you sign the contract and the rate is set. I think thats fundamental to the whole thing. If they require the receipts then, im a-ok with that.
If the insurance company can change the value of the contract then all of the sudden they have the motivation to defraud you. Which is certainly no better. and it doesnt apply to just modified cars.

[Apoc]

and all Im saying is that worth is determined when you sign the contract and the rate is set.

The value of the contract is absolutely NOT set when you ratify it. The value is set by current market value at the time the loss occurs. I'm not going to get the same payout today as I would two years from now because my car is worth less. In most cases, they know the value of a total loss because they have your VIN and compare it to similar vehicles. In the case of aftermarket parts, it can get tricky based on the specific of the policy.

Some companies require receipts before they will underwrite you for that amount, some require them on the back end. All that matters is that you prove you had them when the loss occured. Providing receipts when getting the policy is just "pre-proving" your loss before it happens.

Your premiums are set based on the current value, expected depreciation and the ammortization of statistical likelihood that you'll suffer a loss (of whatever magnitude). Insurance companies don't set the premium with the expectation that you'll suffer a loss in the first year, just that you'll pay more in premiums than they do in losses. Sometimes they win the gamble, sometimes they lose but the "house edge" is often in their favor. It's called a Loss Ratio (loss/premium) and agents are rewarded for having particularly low ones. (Note: An agent LR of 0.8 is considered exceptional so it's not like they're always stealing your money.)

That's why older people have particular low rates. They're generally safer so even with extremely low premiums their Loss Ratio approaches infinity. Even a small fender-bender doesn't matter because it's likely they'd paid for 10+ years without a single claim.

If the insurance company can change the value of the contract then all of the sudden they have the motivation to defraud you.

That's why the "Appraisal Clause" exists. If you feel the insurance company is undervaluing your loss at the time it occured then you can have an independent appraiser/arbitrator determine the value.

[HAULN-SS]

I think when a car is 20 it can be insured for any amount, flat rate. that's waht I did with my white car.

[Ginger]

*sigh*

Did you read the thread?

[HAULN-SS]

what thread?

[Ginger]

.. the 6 pages of the one you just posted in.

[HAULN-SS]

Just the short posts

[Ginger]

Well then thank you for that wonderful Gem of information.

[WRXtranceformed]

Ha ha

[HAULN-SS]

np

[Apoc]

I actually charted all my rates over the last 5 years... it's really quite amazing. As soon as I get my renewal this month I'll post it up for everything.

Multi-line discounts own.

Things that may not be apparant here are that turning 25 had nearly no effect for me. Turning 25 and getting married were in the same renewal period for the Civic so it's hard to split those out. Perhaps most obvious is the impact of vehicle cost and certrain... transgressions... on my part. Despite how much I've paid in premiums, I'm pretty sure they've paid more in claims.

[WRXtranceformed]

I tried to get a quote for a 2000 S4 when I was like 22 or so, and I was looking at like $6,000 per year :lol: I wonder what it would be now.

Cool chart btw.

[Feersty]

Nice chart Chris. I am coming up on premium renewal in Jan 2008, hopefully I get the decent discount I was tentatively promised as this premium will be the one after I turn 25.

[.RJ]

hopefully I get the decent discount I was tentatively promised

Have you been patiently waiting?

[Feersty]

hopefully I get the decent discount I was tentatively promised

Have you been patiently waiting?

fuck you too

[.RJ]

[Feersty]

I am not mean so it is still something I still have to get used to with you guys.