Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!)

[Apoc]

Does anyone believe the D nomination will actually want healthcare for undocumented immigrants? I do not.

[JPolen01]

Does anyone believe the D nomination will actually want healthcare for undocumented immigrants? I do not.

Nope. Just a talking point. The same as reparations.

California is just doing California. Let them do the experiment. If somehow it miraculously works out of the greater good there then maybe it will get a national discussion. But highly unlikely.

[CaptainHenreh]

Does anyone believe the D nomination will actually want healthcare for undocumented immigrants? I do not.

Nope. Just a talking point. The same as reparations.

This. If the dems win the white house and senate they'll push through an expensive and shitty "optional medicare for all" bill that you'll pay for in addition to your social security taxes (but it won't give you any discount on your current health care) for "Emergency Heath Needs". In fact, I bet it's put on payroll taxes. 

They'll push through another AWB and "universal background checks" which will go immediately to SCOTUS, who will probably uphold them both because somehow "The People" means, the national guard, or something. 

They'll also introduce a climate change bill that will put caps on refinery capacity and probably include "green buildings".

And that's about all they'll be able to do before the midterm bloodbath.


edit: Oh and reparations el oh el, 100% never gonna happen.

[.RJ]

First off, I love RJ. Always have, always will. But, coming from one of the most conservative hard red parts of the country, I want to say this. If the left is so angry at name calling and negative language, referring to the POTUS in the above terms, or any of the other derogatory terms in this thread, hurts your argument. Calling someone names and deriding them, while deriding them for doing the same, hurts your argument. 

Calling it as I see it, here.

the vast majority of his supporters (who live all around me), could give two shits about day to day politics. The vast majority of his supporters don’t care what he says, who he offends, or even watch the news. Is the economy good? Yes. Is unemployment down? Yes. Are they being largely left alone? Yes. 

Hate me for it if you want, but I think the outrage over not being upset is dumb.  Whether Trump supporters agree with his statements or not isn’t an indication of how everyone feels, most of us just don’t give a shit. The vast majority of his supporters don’t watch the news an don’t care to speak out or yell about what he does, they are more concerned with living day to day and providing for their family. Not everyone who is a conservative agrees with Trump (or what he says, like me), but, unlike those who live in DC or are involved in it day to day, we don’t care.

Did these same folks have the same indifference towards Obama? Just curious.

[Ken]

As for this, I don’t think it’s so much that it doesn’t matter to his base of supporters, but; more like, they don’t care. 

[G.Irish]

First off, I love RJ. Always have, always will. But, coming from one of the most conservative hard red parts of the country, I want to say this. If the left is so angry at name calling and negative language, referring to the POTUS in the above terms, or any of the other derogatory terms in this thread, hurts your argument. Calling someone names and deriding them, while deriding them for doing the same, hurts your argument. 

Ok, for one the president is supposed to be held to a higher standard. George W. Bush got a lot of flak and negative media coverage but you never heard him lash out with vulgarity and insults for those who criticized him. You didn't see Bush insulting former cabinet members like when Trump call his former Secretary of State 'dumb as rocks'.

Secondly, a lot of those same people who love Trump for 'telling it like it is', 'he's unfiltered', and 'he says what we're all thinking' are clutching their pearls when people call them names the same way Trump insults others. People cheer Trump for not being politically incorrect when he says and does things that are racist, then they get offended when people say 'hey, that's racist'. Or people say 'you're racist if you support that'.

I don't really get off on calling Trump supporters names, but it puzzles me how people who are totally on board with his insults and demagoguery get a case of the vapors when people call them names in return.

As for this, I don’t think it’s so much that it doesn’t matter to his base of supporters, but; more like, they don’t care. Everyone wants outrage at what Trump has said, which is deserved, but the vast majority of his supporters (who live all around me), could give two shits about day to day politics. The vast majority of his supporters don’t care what he says, who he offends, or even watch the news.

I don't think there's any distinction being made here. Most of his supporters don't care who he demonizes, don't care who he hurts, and some actually cheer him on for his cruelty to migrant children. As long as that cruelty is happening to those other people, they're cool with it. They don't care if he is damaging our democracy or trafficking in violent rhetoric. They can all turn a blind eye to it.

And it's not like a lot of those supporters don't see this stuff. They may not be familiar with every outrage, but they see a lot of the stuff he does, but aren't bothered by it.

Is the economy good? Yes. Is unemployment down? Yes. Are they being largely left alone? Yes. 

Obama presided over the recovery after a massive economic crisis. The economy was good when he left. Yet a lot of Trump supporters had/have nothing but hate for Obama. So clearly it's not just about the economy being good and unemployment being low while they're largely being left alone.

Hate me for it if you want, but I think the outrage over not being upset is dumb.

I for one, don't feel outrage that Trump supporters aren't upset over what he does. I just feel deeply sad that there are a number of people who I'm friends with who simply don't care that this man is making this country more dangerous to live in for people like me. It makes me sad that other Americans simply shrug their shoulders and continue supporting a man who is actively making America worse for a lot of us. I guess I thought I lived in a better country than I actually do.

We're going further and further down a dark path that has led to atrocities in other countries and a large portion of America is cool with it. And because they still continue to support him after all of this stuff he does, he will feel emboldened to keep dragging us to new lows. And all of those GOP'ers in Congress either are fully onboard with it, or they're scared that they'll upset his supporters.

[CaptainHenreh]

simply don't care that this man is making this country more dangerous to live in for people like me.  It makes me sad that other Americans simply shrug their shoulders and continue supporting a man who is actively making America worse for a lot of us.  

So, I agree with you on everything yous aid. Here's the spot I'm in:


1: Trump is a fuckstick, I don't like him, I didn't vote for him, and I won't. Just so we're all clear.

2: The day after Trump was elected (remember the march for science?) I lost a good friend because when they said "Oh my god I'm half jewish half mexican and my wife is bisexual we're going to be thrown into a camp it's going to be HELL", I said "Well over my dead body you will, but also let's not be hysterical, no such thing is going to happen." And last time I checked, they're at their same jobs, in their same cozy apartment, definitely not in a camp. 

3: just because they AREN'T in a camp doesn't excuse violent rhetoric by the president or anyone else. 

Now I will agree that he political climate is extremely charged, in a way that we all haven't seen in our lifetimes. The skinheads are back, rebranded as the "alt right" and the Weathermen are basically back, now as Antifa, and it's all very strange and pretty scary so I won't deny any of that. 

I'd really love for Trump to disavow any hateful group that supports him, and maybe shut the fuck up on his weird, foreign-phobic rhetoric. But I also recognize that even if he did... nothing would be any different.


I mean, honestly, and I'm asking this in 100% good faith, what the fuck am I supposed to do? 

Yes, the economy is good. Yes, unemployment is down. Yes, violent crime is down. People are making money and spending money and FOR THE AVERAGE AMERICAN things have only gotten better in ways that actually matter. 

So how can I support economic and domestic policies that I like, when the GOP is just letting Trump do his thing while Cocaine Mitch Makes Shit Happen, and the DNC is literally trying as hard as they can to push stuff I absolutely won't support. I think a higher minimum wage will hurt more people than it helps. I think that blowing away 1 trillion dollars of bad debt without fixing the system that put it there will do only harm, not good. I think that America has done a great job correcting it's climate damage, and that going balls-first into tearing down old buildings because they aren't as efficient as they could be will be a colossal waste of resources. I believe that the correct response to people saying things I find disgusting is not to criminalize that speech but to counter it with speech of my own. I think that our immigration system needs a serious and long-overdue overhaul, but "let everybody in, yee haw!" is maybe the worst Idea I've ever heard in my whole life. 

So what the fuck am I supposed to do, then? Trump's gonna be president tomorrow, he's gonna be president the day after, and he's PROBABLY gonna be president in 2022, if the DNC keeps swinging themselves further and further left. So while I agree with everything you said, I also think that there's never, ever, been a better time to be alive and never, ever, been a better time to be an American, and that IF there's a better place to live on planet earth, it's probably got a smaller population than Texas.

So I'm honestly all ears. Other than "well constantly bitch about it", what am I supposed to do?

[Kaan]

I'm moving to Kaantucky Canturkistan <3

[CaptainHenreh]

I'm moving to Kaantucky Canturkistan <3

That's not gonna solve anything.

[Apoc]

I just feel deeply sad that there are a number of people who I'm friends with who simply don't care that this man is making this country more dangerous to live in for people like me.

I thought about this on my commute home yesterday and I'm glad you said it out loud. It must feel really alienating. 

This line from Boondock Saints also came to mind: We must always fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil that we must fear the most, and that is the indifference of good men.

I've spent a lot of time thinking about where I want to raise my kid and what I've come up with is America isn't it. Everyone just seems so much angrier and hostile than they used to be, even in hippie stoner places like Seattle. I'm 100% serious when I say I'm working hard to expatriate before my kid starts kindergarten. The grass is always greener... yada yada yada... but I've done a lot of deep thinking about what's important to us that answer is elsewhere.... and yes, probably in a place with a population smaller than Texas.

[Kaan]

I'm moving to Kaantucky Canturkistan <3

That's not gonna solve anything.

im claiming sovereignty

[CaptainHenreh]

I even have the option. I could pack up my family and within 18 months be happily living outside the US, I have the ability but...I honestly can't think of a better place than right here in my beautiful valley.

[Kaan]

I just feel deeply sad that there are a number of people who I'm friends with who simply don't care that this man is making this country more dangerous to live in for people like me.

I thought about this on my commute home yesterday and I'm glad you said it out loud. It must feel really alienating. 

This line from Boondock Saints also came to mind: We must always fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil that we must fear the most, and that is the indifference of good men.

I've spent a lot of time thinking about where I want to raise my kid and what I've come up with is America isn't it. Everyone just seems so much angrier and hostile than they used to be, even if hippie stoner places like Seattle. I'm 100% serious when I say I'm working hard to expatriate before my kid starts kindergarten. The grass is always greener... yada yada yada... but I've done a lot of deep thinking about what's important to us that answer is elsewhere.... and yes, probably in a place with a population smaller than Texas.

Team D and Team R are all POS... in one way or another "they" have been stirring this pot

As far as safety is concerned... no normal person will not let an alt right OR antifa person act a fool. I truly believe that. When they gather in mass that's a whole different ball game.

we have the right to peacefully assemble and to peacefully protest, neither of those fringe elements understands peaceful. IMHO exercise your rights... especially if you are in an area (town/city) where they are assembling. You can be as anti gun as you want until there are +2 people swinging bike locks at you and your family.

[Apoc]

If I'm honest, there are two things I think about leaving behind when considering living abroad:

1) gun ownership
2) marijuana smokership

These personal freedoms are important to me, but neither D or R are interested in allowing both AND not being an asshole to people who don't think like them. Until a third party is taken seriously, I feel government rarely represents my interests.

[.RJ]

America is fucking amazing and I love it here.... thats why I care about this.

[Apoc]

America is fucking amazing and I love it here.... thats why I care about this.

[Steve85]

I just feel deeply sad that there are a number of people who I'm friends with who simply don't care that this man is making this country more dangerous to live in for people like me.

I thought about this on my commute home yesterday and I'm glad you said it out loud. It must feel really alienating. 

+1 

The thing that kept bothering me were the references to "some guy" or "one guy" tweeting these things. The POTUS is NOT just "some guy". It matters and is empowering to overtly racist groups and individuals just waiting to make their mark. And it's pretty clear to me that impacts how people that are potential targets feel in terms of their safety and security.

[ScottyB]

Everyone just seems so much angrier and hostile than they used to be

this is an apt description of the entire world btw.

we certainly have our own unique blend of race relations, classism and public education that's mostly failed multiple generations....but if you want anything close to a living standard similar to the US, you're quite limited before you're going to run into more angry, myopic assholes.

i bet Austria's nice this time of year

[Apoc]

Everyone just seems so much angrier and hostile than they used to be

this is an apt description of the entire world btw.  

we certainly have our own unique blend of race relations, classism and public education that's mostly failed multiple generations....but if you want anything close to a living standard similar to the US, you're quite limited before you're going to run into more angry, myopic assholes.

i bet Austria's nice this time of year

My two choices, if I want to stay in my current org, are Ireland or Switzerland. They each have their own problems. Kids being wound so tight they experience crushing anxiety or getting shot in school are not among them. I'll sacrifice my guns and weed for my kid to experience that kind of psychological safety.

[ScottyB]

its hard to experience crushing anxiety when there's fresh Guiness on tap on every corner, that i can agree with.

my wife's an educator and i'd be lying if i said i didn't have campus shootings in the back of my mind from time to time. i hate that i'd even be thinking of that in the first place.