just dreaming... educate me on what I should get please!

[Apoc]

If there's a bike there, you can hear it. That's all that matters. If you hear another bike, ride a defensive line (if you're racing), if you don't, keep truckin it.

I had already spotted what biker I would tuck in behind going up into 7 and since she was further to the inside of the track I had room to brake. Then she decided "actually, I want to be over.... *here*". Well now she's directly in front of me, I was already running kind of hot but had to release the brakes, scoot over to the edge of the track, and then get hard on the brakes while running down the painted stripe. I ran right up next to her, close enough that I could have kicked her. The only reason I made the turn was because she turned in ridiculously early and free'd up some of the turn for me to burn off more speed. That was in the Sport Enthusiast/Intermediate group.

Seems to be a disconnect between your two statements. So you're saying she could hear you but chose to move into your line purposely? Seems to me this should be the best time to look into your mirror. Not knowing what's coming up on your before altering your line is a recipie for disaster.

If you'd rather go into turn 1 at VIR North or Summit looking behind you, by all means go for it. I'd be impressed with your talent.

Wow... people who don't have any situational awareness are the scariest people to race with. Seasoned racers will do anything not to be around someone who doesn't know what's going on around them, regardless of track position.

Again, racing is not the same as learning but why teach bad habits once in the Intermediate group and higher?

[stevegula]

the most important time to know what is going on behind you is under braking (also when engines are the quietest) so that you dont turn in on someone, block a faster class, know how to defend etc.

At a track day, you don't defend your line. At a track day you don't block a faster class because they're not out on the track at the same time as you. At a track day you won't turn in on someone because they're not allowed to be on your inside, they're only allowed to come up on your outside.

At a race, if you're in mixed classes, the faster guy will pass you either way most likely. If you hold him up too long, you'll get flagged so you know to get out of the way. You'll know to defend because you'll hear them.

Seems to be a disconnect between your two statements. So you're saying she could hear you but chose to move into your line purposely? Seems to me this should be the best time to look into your mirror. Not knowing what's coming up on your before altering your line is a recipie for disaster.

No, what I was saying is she was a bit too nub to do the right thing and shit happens. Y'all seem to think, or have atleast been posting like it, that those on the track are only really great riders. In the Intermediate groups there's always a mix of those who just made it in, those who have been there awhile, and those working their way into Advance. Or you'll have people that are fast enough to be there but are still working on comfort levels with certain things like close passing. So I've been trying to explain that sometimes shit simply happens.

If you cant look in a mirror and brake at the same time, its time to take up golf. Same goes for those "distracting" brake lights.

Tell you what Rossi, you get a motorcycle and go out on the track and then tell me when you had time to look in your mirrors.

The one time I saw people with mirrors on their bikes at a track, their names ended with Schwantz, Acree, Caylor, and James. And they were instructing, they weren't racing.

[BLINGMW]

If there's a bike there, you can hear it. That's all that matters.

ah ok, well that's a bit of new information that makes some sense. I didn't realize there was any chance of hearing another bike behind you when yours is as loud as his. But if that's the skill you're supposed to be developing (that or The Force :wink: ), then that's pretty cool. So how far back can you hear them?

My other concern from a school perspective is that if I know someone's come up behind me pretty quickly, then I'm going to stick to a classic line and try extra hard to be predictable (and not screw up) so he can get by safely. But if I wasn't expected to know, then how would I know when it's safe to play with my line? Just sticking to "my line" all the time in case some unknown bike wants to pass me is kind of unrealistic when my line in just about any group should be a little dynamic as I try new things. From my perspective, it would be less safe to try to pass an intermediate level rider if he didn't know you were there, because he might be trying something odd or new. Just a thought.

Y'all seem to think, or have atleast been posting like it, that those on the track are only really great riders. In the Intermediate groups there's always a mix of those who just made it in, those who have been there awhile, and those working their way into Advance. Or you'll have people that are fast enough to be there but are still working on comfort levels with certain things like close passing. So I've been trying to explain that sometimes shit simply happens.

oh no, I think any of us with any track experience understand that. Sounds to me like your "intermediate" group is just as mixed as ours. And shit does happen. But that doesn't mean we should ignore the chance to prevent it.

[Kaan]

slide/ride and/or die/ER visit... bitches! Channing get a bike! you have a good head on your shoulders... ok other than the jumping in the pool with your cell phone in your pocket... and issues with E30s. You'll be fine on most anything 650/600 and lower.

[stevegula]

If there's a bike there, you can hear it. That's all that matters.

I didn't realize there was any chance of hearing another bike behind you when yours is as loud as his. [...] So how far back can you hear them?

That I can't honestly attest to because I've never looked back after hearing a bike. I typically only look back when I'm throwing up an arm and pulling into the paddocks or when I'm flicking off my friend. Most people don't develop the skill because you're never worried about what's behind you on a typical track day. If you're holding someone up, they can pass you or pit and wait for open track - that's just understood (and constantly mentioned in the rider's meeting). It's typically pretty easy on a track day though because everyone is riding different bikes (twins/I4s) w/ different exhausts (there's what? 400 brands? heh), so you'll be scooting and then think "hmm, that noise isn't my bike..."

But if I wasn't expected to know, then how would I know when it's safe to play with my line? Just sticking to "my line" all the time in case some unknown bike wants to pass me is kind of unrealistic when my line in just about any group should be a little dynamic as I try new things.

Most of the time, the rider behind you will be able to tell. He'll watch you go in and say "Hah, good luck bringing that out on the other side" and just wait... The times I've had someone blow their line as I'm passing mid turn I've either slowed down, altered my line to to accomodate theirs, or gone off the track (once it involved me crashing). It is the passing riders responsibility to not hit you, so don't sweat him. At the same time don't be a spastic rider. If you set yourself up for whatever line you want to do going in, people will see it. It's when riders set up for one line and at the last second say "Haha! just kidding!" and hop around the track that causes issues. Once you decide on a line, just stick to it. Didn't like it? Change it next time, don't change it mid turn (unless you're going to crash, then change it, crashing sucks and we'll all understand).

oh no, I think any of us with any track experience understand that. Sounds to me like your "intermediate" group is just as mixed as ours. And shit does happen. But that doesn't mean we should ignore the chance to prevent it.

Agree'd. But you're not going to improve safety by looking behind you. Honestly, Cornerspeed is such a great school because they'll teach you how to handle all of this. And they constantly emphasize during the school that it's not about getting faster, it's about getting better. And with improved riding skills comes greater speed. They don't tell the class "go as fast as you can and we'll start from there." They start with the basics and go from there. Stevenson (the main instructor) is huge on safety.

I'd feel so much better about all track days if I knew everyone had gone through Cornerspeed and not just started out at Nesba in the beginner group and then got bumped up without any real education. The nice thing about a Cornerspeed track day at VIR is the riders are either in the school and riding in the school group, took Cornerspeed or a riding school somewhere else (Schwantz @ Road Atlanta, MARCC at Summit, California Superbike School, etc) to be in the Sport Enthusiast group, or are racers and they're in the race group. In the Sport Enthusiast group at a Cornerspeed day, you'll see a lot of instructors working with riders, managing traffic, etc. So they're typically pretty safe. Not always the case with other organizations. A lot of organizations will simply say "How good do you think you are? Okay, you're in that group."

[BLINGMW]

So here I am at the same place I was last year.... still no bike, but still thinking. :oops:

I forgot we had this nice long discussion about brake lights and mirrors on track, it was a nice re-read.

ANYWAY.... let's say I was considering the GS500 or SV650. Both come "naked" or with fairings. I don't care if the fairing and little windscreen increase the top speed or anything, but does it make it more ridable on track? Does it cut down on wind buffeting or keep your helmet from ripping off or something? Or is it just for looks and speed? Last question, can they usually be added on if I bought a naked one and changed my mind?

*edit* oh, and I also realize the naked ones have a more upright riding position, does that take away from cornering and the ability to lean correctly? I ask because I prefer the look and riding position of the naked ones.

[Sijray21]

does it make it more ridable on track? Does it cut down on wind buffeting or keep your helmet from ripping off or something? Or is it just for looks and speed? Last question, can they usually be added on if I bought a naked one and changed my mind?

i don't know about on-track, but i can imagine on the highway is pretty similar (just at high speeds). The fairings do help with aero and high-speed stability. The two bikes i'm comparing (GS500e and cbr 600rr) are quite different, but i did notice better wind shielding with the RR at highway speeds. Other than that i don't think it really matters. I can imagine the plastics will help save more parts in the uneventful situation of a crash, but it's not worth customizing a naked bike that's never been fitted for a set before - less plastic = less parts to replace in a crash (IMO). My helmet at higher speeds moved around more without a front fairing and wind screen on the GS500e when i had it, i remember that difference was significant.

Oddly enough, my next bike will likely be a naked sport bike of some sort with a seating position that's not as aggressive. It's duty will be just street though.

*edit* (oh, and I also realize the naked ones have a more upright riding position, does that take away from cornering and the ability to lean correctly?)

Depends on the bike. Generally speaking i think the naked bikes have a more relaxed seating position, but it really will depend on the bike. Leaning correctly can be done on any bike, but unless you want to drag an elbow or something i think you'll be fine with most naked bikes

[Apoc]

Wow... I got halfway down the first page (to my own post) before I realized this was a bump. I don't see any reason why you couldn't track the naked version. Don't a lot of people do that as is?

[BLINGMW]

Wow... I got halfway down the first page (to my own post) before I realized this was a bump. I don't see any reason why you couldn't track the naked version. Don't a lot of people do that as is?

heh sorry about that. :wink:

And yes, I see plenty of them at the track, good point.

[Apoc]

The only thing that would worry me is frame damage on the SV. I know I've seen track plastics on the SV but those were track only bikes... and you want to ride street.



You can swap plastics so much easier on an SVS and the riding position is a bit sportier (and better) for track IMO. People generally change the clip-ons so you might as well get an SVS as far as I'm concerned. Have you sat on an SVS? They're not extreme at all. I mean, we're talkin' SVS here, it's not like the reach is an Italian Torture RackÔäó.

[BLINGMW]

Have you sat on an SVS? They're not extreme at all. I mean, we're talkin' SVS here, it's not like the reach is an Italian Torture RackÔäó.

I have, and you're right, it's not like it's uncomfortable. But I could see it wearing me out earlier if I wanted to go on longer rides, which I would do if I pull the trigger on the whole bike thing. I'll go back over to Star City Powersports and try them all on again.

[.RJ]

Even if the bike doesnt "fit" straight away, with a popular bike like the SV650 there's tons of aftermarket options to change things around - seat, footpeg position, clip on/handlebar position, etc.

[BLINGMW]

well.... I hate to disappoint you guys, but I've kind of got my heart set on the 500. It's vastly more likely that I'll get that unless there's just a smokin deal on a 650. And don't bother pointing out ads just yet, it'll be at least another month before I'm looking.

[.RJ]

I've kind of got my heart set on the 500

You can participate in the 40hp drag race with me, chris and ginger :lol:

Of course, chris will lose, he cant win a race.

[Ginger]

A 500?! I'll have real competition?!

BoboChrome and the DirtDevil are getting old

[.RJ]

Dirt Devil... lol

[Apoc]

BoboChrome can nevaR lose!

[BLINGMW]

You can participate in the 40hp drag race with me, chris and ginger :lol:

52 HP! You will lose bitches! :bootyshake:

*edit* oh man, I kinda like what this guy did:


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(I think. I'm not sure.)

[HAULN-SS]

Man, that looks kinda like a buell at first glance

[Ginger]

You're on, southern boy!