Political Flame War (Split from Found my Next Truck)

[damnit458]

Have you never disagreed with a law? If you have, why did you disagree? More often than not, its because you think the wrong is stupid, stemming from you thinking the law is wrong. If you have ever thought this way, you are showing that you believe in a right that is not reliant on the support of the majority.

[Kaan]

now you are talking personal right and wrong and not world/global. if something is wrong to me personally, speak out, convince, do your best to make your view the majority... and things change. and again majority will rule. its cyclic...

[G.Irish]

See now what you're saying is that the majority wins. That is entirely different than saying the majority is right at any given time.

[damnit458]

I think the universal right is that no one should harm another or make another to suffer. The exception would be harming someone to protect someone else from harm (i.e. the police).

But how do you define suffering? What if I believe in beating children, and you dont? To me, beating them is just a means of teaching them a lesson, for which I believe they will be better off in life having learned. If anything, I think they are gaining from what I am doing. To you, im harming the child by beating him, and the child is suffering. Of course today the law would be on your side, but what about 100 years ago? I think more often than not suffering, pain, and harm are also decided by those in charge.

[Evan]

damn. you guys have been busy.
There is so much bullshit going around in this thread I dont know where to start.
Maybe I just wont, I have work to do today.

[Kaan]

but technically winners make the rules that govern right and wrong... though i dont read what i wrote and come up with what you are saying G.

logical convincing of others to have a change of heart, to change a beleif isnt "winning." its the change where the minority becomes the majority.

[damnit458]

now you are talking personal right and wrong and not world/global. if something is wrong to me personally, speak out, convince, do your best to make your view the majority... and things change. and again majority will rule. its cyclic...

What if things dont change, does that mean you were wrong in your belief?

[damnit458]

but technically winners make the rules that govern right and wrong... though i dont read what i wrote and come up with what you are saying G.

logical convincing of others to have a change of heart, to change a beleif isnt "winning." its the change where the minority becomes the majority.

I think the question comes down to this: Is it laws that should determine right and wrong, or is it right and wrong that should determine laws? Whats the difference betweent he two?

[Kaan]

you could go to your grave thinking you were wrong only to have that "thing" change days after your death... in perspective of yourself, you were wrong, globally you were not

[damnit458]

damn. you guys have been busy.
There is so much bullshit going around in this thread I dont know where to start.
Maybe I just wont, I have work to do today.

What the hell you better post
You are usually one of the more vocal people on this forum, I was looking forward to seeing what you have to say. Im also kind of curious on the silence of mike/chad in this post, although to be fair this is about all Ive been doing this morning, and we have gone through like 3 pages in an hour and a half

[Kaan]

but technically winners make the rules that govern right and wrong... though i dont read what i wrote and come up with what you are saying G.

logical convincing of others to have a change of heart, to change a beleif isnt "winning." its the change where the minority becomes the majority.

I think the question comes down to this: Is it laws that should determine right and wrong, or is it right and wrong that should determine laws? Whats the difference betweent he two?

majority determines right and wrong... which in turn writes the law... this was thought of by our founding fathers... hence the ability to amend the constitution.

[Mike]

damn. you guys have been busy.
There is so much bullshit going around in this thread I dont know where to start.
Maybe I just wont, I have work to do today.

What the hell you better post
You are usually one of the more vocal people on this forum, I was looking forward to seeing what you have to say. Im also kind of curious on the silence of mike/chad in this post, although to be fair this is about all Ive been doing this morning, and we have gone through like 3 pages in an hour and a half

this is moving too quickly for me. i made my points, they weren't well responded to, and i don't really care about what y'all are talking about now.

bush is an awful president, this war has and will forever be a giant mistake, and that is all i've got to say.

[G.Irish]

Spanking children falls under discipline and punishment. Whether or not the punishment is excessive falls under social norms. As an extension, sending someone to jail for breaking the law is an agreed upon punishment by social norms. This is kind of the historical context thing. We make the best determination of what harm is, from what we know today.

With children, our knowledge comes to prove that a certain level of corporal punishment is detrimental to their health. So giving a child a spanking is fine as a punishment but shoving hot coals up their ass is not.

[Kaan]

So giving a child a spanking is fine as a punishment but shoving hot coals up their ass is not.

hahaha i cant stop laughing!

[Kaan]

damn. you guys have been busy.
There is so much bullshit going around in this thread I dont know where to start.
Maybe I just wont, I have work to do today.

What the hell you better post
You are usually one of the more vocal people on this forum, I was looking forward to seeing what you have to say. Im also kind of curious on the silence of mike/chad in this post, although to be fair this is about all Ive been doing this morning, and we have gone through like 3 pages in an hour and a half

this is moving too quickly for me. i made my points, they weren't well responded to, and i don't really care about what y'all are talking about now.

bush is an awful president, this war has and will forever be a giant mistake, and that is all i've got to say.

mike did you vote?

[Evan]

this was a few pages ago, but I have a ocuple comments to make on it

Had the confederate side won, slavery would not have been outlawed, period.

A personal pet peeve of mine is this viewpoint (along with the popular idea that the civil war was over slavery)

Slavery was a dying institution not only due to the social enlightenments going on in the mid to late 1800s (few of the confederate leaders owned slaves), but more importantly (effectively..) because it was no longer economically viable to own slaves. Slaves cost the present day equivalent of a nice mercedes, with added food and shelter "maintenence" costs. (this is also why the popular view spread by northern authors who had never been to the south of slaves being frequently beaten is for the most part untrue) With the influx of immigrants and expanding population creating a bigger potential workforce, paid laborers were becoming much more profitable.
And if you think the exploitation of immigrant labor in the mid to late 1800s and early 1900s is any better than slavery, you are kidding yourself.

[Kaan]

Evan how do you feel on current "day laborers?"

[damnit458]

this was a few pages ago, but I have a ocuple comments to make on it

Had the confederate side won, slavery would not have been outlawed, period.

A personal pet peeve of mine is this viewpoint (along with the popular idea that the civil war was over slavery)

Slavery was a dying institution not only due to the social enlightenments going on in the mid to late 1800s (few of the confederate leaders owned slaves), but more importantly (effectively..) because it was no longer economically viable to own slaves. Slaves cost the present day equivalent of a nice mercedes, with added food and shelter "maintenence" costs. (this is also why the popular view spread by northern authors who had never been to the south of slaves being frequently beaten is for the most part untrue) With the influx of immigrants and expanding population creating a bigger potential workforce, paid laborers were becoming much more profitable.
And if you think the exploitation of immigrant labor in the mid to late 1800s and early 1900s is any better than slavery, you are kidding yourself.

I was more talking from the moral viewpoint, not the economic one. Perhaps I should put it this way. Had the confederates won the war, slavery would not have been made illegal immediately (nobody can say for the future of course). Furthermore, it seems logical that any reason for its dissapearance would be economic, not a change in moral reasoning saying slavery is wrong.

[Mike]

damn. you guys have been busy.
There is so much bullshit going around in this thread I dont know where to start.
Maybe I just wont, I have work to do today.

What the hell you better post
You are usually one of the more vocal people on this forum, I was looking forward to seeing what you have to say. Im also kind of curious on the silence of mike/chad in this post, although to be fair this is about all Ive been doing this morning, and we have gone through like 3 pages in an hour and a half

this is moving too quickly for me. i made my points, they weren't well responded to, and i don't really care about what y'all are talking about now.

bush is an awful president, this war has and will forever be a giant mistake, and that is all i've got to say.

mike did you vote?

i have twice... the first time my candidate actually won

[JackoliciousLegs]

you need to lay off the hash pipe dude, I swear to god, if I ever have 120k lying around to spend I'm going to by one of these and run over your democratic, converse wearing, hippie, pot smoking ass.

I don't smoke anything.
If you have an SUV for a reason, great... use it. Don't use is to haul groceries. They're not only polluting... they're dangerous.

(and in case you didnt know, your TurboII polluted much more than any SUV on the market right now)

I'll have you know that my Turbo II passed VA emissions with flying colors and got 23mpg.

Come on people. This is AMERICA we kick the Talaban's ass because they feel this way, don't make me hate you too.

I really hope you're joking... oh... check your spelling too.

oh, phew, had me worried there for a minute, one can never tell. Glad we only have one Jack(ass) on the forum :roll:

That's right... resort to namecalling.

Its when you turn those opinions into negativity, destruction and breaking the law that I have a problem with. Which Jack said he was happy about.

I don't agree with what that guy did to those SUVs. It was wrong... and probably affected our insurance rates as a result. It does kinda satisfy my primal urges though.(DOESN"T MEAN I AGREE WITH IT)

There are some wackos bombing abortion clinics, but Im sure as shit not coming out and saying how happy I am that they bombed the evil clinics.

Don't get me started on abortion... you should be the guy to tell the 16 year old girl she should have her daddy's child.

Exactly. The only difference now is that there is nobody to sit here and bad mouth rightist political groups, harping on things that they tend to do.

Conservative groups have brought us such great historical milestones as <cue announcer voice> THE WAR ON TERROR, responsible for the legal sacrifice of innocent American lives, THE HOLOCAUST, responsible for the lives of 11 million minorities, LYNCHINGS, good 'ole fashion murder, and the KKK, our favorite hooded heroes!</announcer>

your philosophy would bring the world to anarchy. Murder is wrong... Rape is wrong... if you want to know why... because the majority says so. the majority will always control the minority until the minority is no longer that... through convincing others and legal protests... through logic... not with your quack ideas of right and wrong.

Anarchy is the highest form of government. The majority is not always right... you know this too. Again, southern racism, holocaust... etc.

my arguement is based on majority and minority. if i move to another country where i am the minority i dont bomb places or set things on fire. I react in the legal relm to change things... OR i get the fuck out.

That's how bad events like the holocaust happen. People just leave and don't stand up for what's right.

slavery was defeated. the majority won. think on my level to defeat me or your examples will fall short.

I think it'd be hard to say that anti-slavery activists were in the majority back then. It was a slow change and still is.

slavery was "one" reason for the war. just like terrorism was for this one...

Iraq did not attack us... you must be confused. Oh, and you can NOT fight terrorism... why don't Americans get this?!?!

bush is an awful president, this war has and will forever be a giant mistake, and that is all i've got to say.

wow mike, i actually agree with you

Jackoff is a lost cause... i wrote him off a long time ago... i thought it was funny that he drove a wankel and hugged trees at the same time.

Read above... and yeah... my well travelled, feel bad for the poor, share the wealth, down with sexism, down with racism, up with equality ass is here to stay.