Is there a thing as too much HP's?

[Apoc]

That is absolutely brilliant. I'd vote for that law.

You'd be f'ed with your 4000 lb eurotrash sled

3700 sucka!

How much does your truck weigh?

[.RJ]

How much does your truck weigh?

65 tons of american pride!



Of course, it doesnt go that fast so I'm ok.

[ScottyB]

Scotty-Idiots make money too. They can also have kids. Also rich, smart people are also able to produce idiot children so there.

oh i know, i was being very general 8)

i'm with Andrew though, this is a driver problem and another reason why we need a graduated liscense system where you have to earn your way to being cleared to go certain speeds in certain places...but that's another thread altogether.

[CaptainHenreh]

sweet jeebus! i hadn't heard the new final numbers...but that car is pure sex. With all these ridiculous choices on the horizon, I don't know why anyone wouldn't buy domestic. There's good shit in every price range

Auto only.

no wai! It says int he article that you can get the tremec with it

You know, you're right. They were playing up the auto so much I had ass-u-med that it was going to suffer the same fate as the G8 and only get a six speed automatic.

[Andy]

I don't understand why you think this is your perogotive to regulate. Your problem isn't the cars, it's the drivers. If I want a 500hp car, I don't see any legitimate reason that I can't have one... if you want to go down the road of questioning my rationale you're travelling down a slippery slope. It's not the government's business what I do with my things if it doesn't break any laws.

Most motorcycles produced will dwarf most cars perforamance numbers... should I not be allowed to own one? I've never gotten a ticket for misbehavior. That, and my use of my 45+mpg toys is more friendly on the environment than my 20mpg truck.

I don't think you're reading what I'm writing.

[Evan]

However, I don't think that companies should be allowed to produce cars that are essentially PR/Marketing tools that are harmful to society and costly to taxpayers. In my mind, I see these cars as a marketing tool that externalized its costs to the taxpayer.

How about showing that a high hp car is harmful to society and costly to taxpayers before you get all worked up over them and try to ban them.

but then again, its working for global warming fanatics, so hey why not try it on anything you dont like?

[Ginger]

Well.. correct me. It sounds to me like you're saying:

"Cars are too powerful and people do irresponsible things with them. There's no reason for this extravagent power output. We should regulate down the power output because there is no reason for it, and it's dangerous."

[Andy]

However, I don't think that companies should be allowed to produce cars that are essentially PR/Marketing tools that are harmful to society and costly to taxpayers. In my mind, I see these cars as a marketing tool that externalized its costs to the taxpayer.

How about showing that a high hp car is harmful to society and costly to taxpayers before you get all worked up over them and try to ban them.

but then again, its working for global warming fanatics, so hey why not try it on anything you dont like?

Actually not worked up at all. I actually don't really care. I just thought it was an interesting question to pose on a slow work day. No need to get your hackles up.

Most of the time, my personal beliefs and ideas are my own and I genuinely don't think it would work for most in society. No need to attack me personally.

Well.. correct me. It sounds to me like you're saying:

"Cars are too powerful and people do irresponsible things with them. There's no reason for this extravagent power output. We should regulate down the power output because there is no reason for it, and it's dangerous."

Read above.

This would be a more accurate quote of my thoughtson the matter:

"Cars are too powerful and people do irresponsible things with them. What should we as a society think about this and how should we address this problem if it's a problem at all. I happen to think it's a problem that should be addressed but society as a whole should debate the matter and arrive at a consensous."

[Evan]

where did I attack you personally?

and Im serious, prove to me how they are harmful to society. This is step #1 before you can even consider any action to take.


btw, why do you go to the track? Its harmful to society.

[Andy]

where did I attack you personally?

and Im serious, prove to me how they are harmful to society. This is step #1 before you can even consider any action to take.


btw, why do you go to the track? Its harmful to society.

If you didn't attack me then so be it.

Costs to society include increased gas consumption of not just the halo car but every car slotted near it. E.G. since the Z06 has 505, the ZR has to have a lot more to justify it's price tag and if we want to make the base Vette desirable, it has to have 400hp. In order to generate those sorts of peak HP's, fuel economy has to be sacrifice at all rev ranges and gears outside of overdrive/tall gear.

Assuming that it crashes at high speed, let's say north of 120/130, how much more damage, debris does it cause?

What about other motorists who are hit. What sort of damage is caused by a 70-80mph car as opposed to a 120-130mph car?

Lastly, this more to do with consumer choice and the allure of high HPs. In this current world of limited petroleum reserves in the hands of unstable or unfriendly nations, should the goal/desire be more these sorts of cars?


You're right about me doing trackdays. It's definitely hypocrisy on my part but I can still ask the question.

[Evan]

Costs to society include increased gas consumption of not just the halo car but every car slotted near it. E.G. since the Z06 has 505, the ZR has to have a lot more to justify it's price tag and if we want to make the base Vette desirable, it has to have 400hp. In order to generate those sorts of peak HP's, fuel economy has to be sacrifice at all rev ranges and gears outside of overdrive/tall gear.

there are already laws going into effect at phased time intervals for a manufacturer's entire lineup must be a certain (low) mpg. iirc its something like 34mpg, which is outrageous for manufacturers who make trucks and work vehicles.
banning them alltogether? thats some serious commie shit .

Assuming that it crashes at high speed, let's say north of 120/130, how much more damage, debris does it cause?

What about other motorists who are hit. What sort of damage is caused by a 70-80mph car as opposed to a 120-130mph car?

a hyundai can go 120mph. ask Al Gore's son how fast a prius can go. i usually joke about how the most reckless cars on the highway are the cars least capable of handling the speed.
the point has already been made in this thread about a dozen times, but its not about the car.
The guy behind the wheel. Personal responsiblity.
But I guess its easier for you to blame the cars and the big companies making them?

Lastly, this more to do with consumer choice and the allure of high HPs. In this current world of limited petroleum reserves in the hands of unstable or unfriendly nations, should the goal/desire be more these sorts of cars?

whose goal do you speak of? Are you saying that in a free market society the consumer has no right to set the demand for a product? see "commie shit" comment above.

[Andy]

If you guys favor a regulation that's geared toward driver education, that sounds good with me.

whose goal do you speak of? Are you saying that in a free market society the consumer has no right to set the demand for a product? see "commie shit" comment above.

Like I said earlier, market supply/demand curves work differently with low volume luxury niche products.

[Evan]

so im curious what else should be regulated in the name of harm to society?

Large houses are more harmful to build, and use up more electricity and resources, and no one really needs 18,000 square feet for a small family. So shouldnt houses be limited in size? Like say, 1000 sq ft per occupant?

A passenger jet pollutes more in one coast to coast trip than an SUV in its entire lifetime. So shouldnt we limit people's personal jet travel in the name of society?
Same goes for non-business related driving. You get 12,000 miles per year, over that and you get fined.

and aboolishing recreational motor sports is of course a given as well.

[Apoc]

I think most would agree that we should promote/teach personal responsibility rather than mandate corporate responsibility. The problem is that very rarely do we agree about the impact of our personal choices.

[Andy]

so im curious what else should be regulated in the name of harm to society?

Large houses are more harmful to build, and use up more electricity and resources, and no one really needs 18,000 square feet for a small family. So shouldnt houses be limited in size? Like say, 1000 sq ft per occupant?

A passenger jet pollutes more in one coast to coast trip than an SUV in its entire lifetime. So shouldnt we limit people's personal jet travel in the name of society?
Same goes for non-business related driving. You get 12,000 miles per year, over that and you get fined.

and aboolishing recreational motor sports is of course a given as well.

All are legitimate questions that should be asked from time to time but you have to do a cost/benefit analysis. But all of your examples are straw men better suited for an argument than a discussion.

I think most would agree that we should promote/teach personal responsibility rather than mandate corporate responsibility. The problem is that very rarely do we agree about the impact of our personal choices.

+1 with the caveat that if people make responsible decisions then corporations by extensive should make responsible decisions as well.

[D_Eclipse9916]

News of the forthcoming 2009 550 hp CTS-V made me ask, ÔÇ£Is there such a thing as too much HPÔÇÖs?ÔÇØ

Aside from the whole environmental/petroleum use thing, what about public safety? Honestly, there is no legal way to use 550hpÔÇÖs on public roads and aside from a really long straight, when is the owner going to get to use all 550 hpÔÇÖs on the track?

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/08/detro...th-550-hp/

No

[Evan]

All are legitimate questions that should be asked from time to time but you have to do a cost/benefit analysis. But all of your examples are straw men better suited for an argument than a discussion.

straw men? this whole discussion is a straw man!
im just illustrating the slippery slope of government dictated 'harm to society'

[Luke]

There is a simple formula for too much HP.

For bikes if you have wheelspin and the front wheel in the air/ have to short shift/ are using TC in top gear then there is sufficient power.

For cars if you are relying on TC to nail the throttle past the apex in mid gears you have enough power already.

If you want to go faster forget power.

You must first add some lightness - CC

[Luke]

A passenger jet pollutes more in one coast to coast trip than an SUV in its entire lifetime. So shouldnt we limit people's personal jet travel in the name of society?
Same goes for non-business related driving. You get 12,000 miles per year, over that and you get fined.

and aboolishing recreational motor sports is of course a given as well.

Approximately 5 mins of global industry running at full power pollutes more than the entire car community, motorsport included for a good year. Carcinogens in some countries are not well regulated and kill most the local population. You sell industrial equipment to China with carbon filters and when you arrive to install it will have been robbed and your instructions will be to stick a pipe out of the window. Its only the last 10 years that anyone has given a damn about high efficiency motors in production so thats 50 odd years of very poor quality returns/HP, it didn't matter then as we all had cold wars to worry about :roll:

Global change is a pile of BS, its been happening since before us smart people invented the f*cking universe

[Evan]

Global change is a pile of BS, its been happening since before us smart people invented the f*cking universe

I agree 100%