Your Financial Institution - Why it Rocks

[Ginger]

Well, make note that the checks don't actually clear in a day. A lot of institutions give you a significant povisional credit for checks you deposit on good faith. If a lot of checks bounce of come bake counterfeit that provision will be revoked. It's a nice benefit of competitive market.

Real, actual check clearin still takes a while... but there's no definitive amount of time it takes. The checks themselves go from a branch, to the Fed clearing house, the clearing house issues the bank a provisional credit to the place you deposited your check and provisionally debits the instiution(s) the checks the branch batch were drawn off. The fed then individually sends the checks to the banks they're drawn off. When the drawing bank gets the checks that the fed debited them for they verify their authenticity and confirm the electronic log of check status (if they're checks drawn off the institution itself, once this done, they're good. if they're checks drawn off customers of the institution they must clear the funds in the customer's account and the customer must verify that they actually issued the checks [which is implicit in the customer not contesting the payment]. When all this is done, the check is actually clear. It takes quite a while.

For large or suspicious checks the provisional privelage is often limited in amount and/or withdrawn completely. You might be thinking "why? Fake checks are rare" but then, you'd be wrong. Problem checks are... an enormous problem. I have a vey large list of these checks just from Canada alone (I can't really say the size) and the frequency is actually growing.

I really don't think it's unfair for institutions to not to extend the provisional credits to very large checks. They represent a substantial loss risk - if a loss is in fact taken, even if it is applied to the owner's account, it is very often charged off by the institution.

*edit* I just thought of something mentioned that I didn't address earlier - the check's maker. It's kind irrelevent whether or not the maker is well known. This doesn't play a part in easing the clearing process, if anything it makes it harder because of the specialization that is often found in larger places (ie - you can't ever get ahold of anybody to confirm... well, anything).

*Ninja Edit 2* I don't like Wachovia one bit. Their customer service has been spotty and often poor in my relations with them.

[WRXtranceformed]

Seems legit to me... I can't say I would cancel all my accounts for a few checks not clearing in a timely manner.

Well you and I are different then! 2-3 weeks is legit for a check to clear? That is more than enough time for any check to clear... especially a corporate one.

If I'm dealing with banks and tens of thousands of my money, and hopefully someday a lot more, I need them to operate at MY speed, not theirs.

[WRXtranceformed]

Well, make note that the checks don't actually clear in a day. A lot of institutions give you a significant povisional credit for checks you deposit on good faith. If a lot of checks bounce of come bake counterfeit that provision will be revoked. It's a nice benefit of competitive market.

Real, actual check clearin still takes a while... but there's no definitive amount of time it takes. The checks themselves go from a branch, to the Fed clearing house, the clearing house issues the bank a provisional credit to the place you deposited your check and provisionally debits the instiution(s) the checks the branch batch were drawn off. The fed then individually sends the checks to the banks they're drawn off. When the drawing bank gets the checks that the fed debited them for they verify their authenticity and confirm the electronic log of check status (if they're checks drawn off the institution itself, once this done, they're good. if they're checks drawn off customers of the institution they must clear the funds in the customer's account and the customer must verify that they actually issued the checks [which is implicit in the customer not contesting the payment]. When all this is done, the check is actually clear. It takes quite a while.

For large or suspicious checks the provisional privelage is often limited in amount and/or withdrawn completely. You might be thinking "why? Fake checks are rare" but then, you'd be wrong. Problem checks are... an enormous problem. I have a vey large list of these checks just from Canada alone (I can't really say the size) and the frequency is actually growing.

I really don't think it's unfair for institutions to not to extend the provisional credits to very large checks. They represent a substantial loss risk - if a loss is in fact taken, even if it is applied to the owner's account, it is very often charged off by the institution.

*edit* I just thought of something mentioned that I didn't address earlier - the check's maker. It's kind irrelevent whether or not the maker is well known. This doesn't play a part in easing the clearing process, if anything it makes it harder because of the specialization that is often found in larger places (ie - you can't ever get ahold of anybody to confirm... well, anything).

*Ninja Edit 2* I don't like Wachovia one bit. Their customer service has been spotty and often poor in my relations with them.

That's all well and good about the details behind how checks are cleared, but honestly I could give two shits about how it's done, or what kinds of liability the banks face. Aren't most banks FDIC insured? Doesn't that cover any losses they might incur?

All I know is that regardless of how much money I deposit into any of my Middleburg accounts, I have access to that cash that day or the next business day. Maybe I'm spoiled, but I demand nothing less than top notch customer service from a bank that I'm doing a lot of business with.

[.RJ]

Maybe I'm spoiled, but I demand nothing less than top notch customer service from a bank that I'm doing a lot of business with.

I dont think a bank considers a few thousand dollars a lot of money

With the amount of fraudulent checks that go around, I'm not surprised the wait times for checks isnt longer - especially from a supposed "well known" (i.e. easy to forge) company/bank/etc.

[WRXtranceformed]

Hah =P Without throwing dollar figures out, I have done a LOT of business with them, and probably more once our 100acre farm outside of Leesburg sells some day in the near future. That includes a car loan as well.

Like I said, I probably won't use a larger bank for investments ever again... only for daily use checking accounts. I think I have a pretty legitimate reason too, but you can debate that all you want.

[Ginger]

Deposit a hundred thousand dollar check... see what happens.

I gave the background because it's unreasonable to expect that you can have it your way all the time. Certain things take time.

Also - FDIC insurance covers a loss to your account should the bank fold... it doesn't cover you or the bank for taking facing a loss on a bad check. What if one of your real checks was intercepted, unbeknownest to you, replaced with a forgery, and you immediately accessed the money? When the fake check kicks back and you've spent 20 grand you're out that money.. not the bank, and not the check issuer. What if you took a fraudulent check by accident and spent the money? I'm trying to point out that the responsibility is on the bank to ensure that they don't take huge losses - especially since the losses are very frequently charged off because the account holders are unable, or unwilling to compensate because of an entitlement attitude or otherwise.

*edit* FDIC was also formed to give people confidence in the banking system - to essentially keep it from folding via bank runs. Letting people know their money is available goes a long way. Ironically, it also created a moral hazard problem for the industry because owners and boards were granted incentive to be more aggressive and less cautios with their policy deicions knowing tha the taxpayers would cover any losses incurred to their depositors.

EDIT 2 - If you're happy with your bank, that's great. It's good you found someplace you like. I'm just trying to say that there's legitimacy behind the bank's actions. I had a guy yell at me for several weeks over this kind of thing once... and the long and short of it is/was we weren't going to take a $60,000 risk because the guy overspent himself and needed money ASAP.

[WRXtranceformed]

Deposit a hundred thousand dollar check... see what happens.

I'll let you know

[Ginger]

I could very well eat my words.

It's really just a little frustrating that people expect everything Now, Now, Now, in the eWorld and have little to no regard for what's actually going on. The bank is, after all, an institution, and for all that in between time they have to take a risk if they give you provisional money. There are exceptions to every rule and so forth, but I think there needs to be a certain amount of understanding that goes on. The bank understands that it's customers/members need their money and really do make good effort to ensure that happens. And customers need to understand that banks arer often hindered by things beyond their conttrol. Often times they're interrupted by poor, and inefficient government processes (ie - the Fed).

But if you found some place that'll float the money and works with you, that's great.

(On a side note: if you were a relatively new customer with Wachovia then the deposit of large checks very soon actually fits certain fraud profiles that tip of security mechanisms - food for thought)... although I said it earlier, Wachovia service sucks.

[WRXtranceformed]

That's understandable. Well, let me ask you then since you seem to have an inside scoop on the banking industry. Do you think it's reasonable to wait almost a month for 2 checks to clear, and then have to resort to bitching out bank managers just to get them to release the money to you? I mean is that normal with most banks? Is it unrealistic of me to expect the kind of service I get at Middleburg Bank from other institutions? I guess I'll have to keep that in mind when I move to SC...I may have to try to keep some stuff open with them if it's that difficult to find that kind of service..

[Apoc]

They're not "releasing" the money. A check clearing is them getting the money from the bank the checks are written on. It's likely there was a delay from the check originators and then your bank wanted to hold for 7 days after that clear to make sure the other bank doesn't come back and say the check was invalid. Your bitching likely just got them to front you the money while they waited for the check to clear. They weren't as forthcoming with such things previously because your pattern fit all the makings of fraud.

FWIW, I don't use banks for investments. I use investment institutions for that.

[.RJ]

lee is a baller
wipes his ass with benjamins
dolla dolla bills!

[Ginger]

I think 2 months is unreasonable. I'm sorry if I came off abraisive. I've gotten yelled at before because people can't stand to wait.

I do a lot of special collection work, which means I collect funds for the institution that do not clear through normal fashion (Foreign checks, mostly). When certain checks get to my desk I actually mail them to the foreign institutions and request a wire in return in US funds. Those funds are, of course, legitimate because the paying institution is holding the check. Blah blah - what's this mean? Most of those checks are paid prior to 2 months time.

So is 2 months too much? I think so, especially for funds drawn of US banks. I would suggest, though, that you establish a good repitoire with any new bank before asking for large monies to be released quickly. If you deposit big checks, wait for their natural clearing, and make it clear that it's normal for you, they will be more likely to approve such transactions in the future. A big factor in all of this is time - the longer you're there the more likely they are to help you.

Your observation about small banks also brings up a good point - you get more leeway there. You get it because they must provide good service to retain their customers, not having the virtue of huge money chests to provide good rates with, and because security will find it much easier to focus in on you should anything go wrong.

My institution has thousands of fraud cases at any given time - we're HUGE and it's often easier to write things off than try and actively get somebody arrested for anything but huge amounts of money. Small bank, small base, easy to put time into finding you.

I'm rambling.

[Apoc]

Reading > Andrew

He said "almost a month."

[.RJ]

I'm rambling.

ramble on, and nows
the time, the time is now to
sing my song Im goin

[Apoc]

wow that sucked

[WRXtranceformed]

That's a great explanation, thanks! I should probably start researching smaller, well-established banks down there now. The Bank of America headquarters is in Charlotte, so I'll probably switch my direct deposit to them, or whatever other big bank is in town.

[Ginger]

Oops. I transposed 'one month' and '2 checks'.

If they actually mailed the checks for collection, which some institutions do in cases which they think fraud is involved, I think a month is realistic. Not much more, but plausible. As an example, some institutions in America will not accept a Navy Federal cashiers check as a regular check - they'll take and mail it out - but due to the high amount of faked checks floating around bearing our name they won't issue any provisional credit for them.

[Evan]

wow that sucked

a lazy response
haiku critic you are not
go eat a twinkie

[HAULN-SS]

Do you hate haiku?
The threads have been gay today.
Do not you think so?

[Steve85]

Steve - where? I work at headquarters in Accounting right now.

I will be at the new branch in Winchester. I am very happy here with my family and they are expanding operations here so I have a lot of room to grow as well.

I can't say much about Wachovia Securities..it doesn't really matter what the name on the building is my guy has helped me a bunch. Absolutely nothing changed going from Prudential to Wachovia. I can write checks directly out of the securities account, let it ride on margin (an instant loan to myself) or liquidate if needed. As for banking, direct deposit, free checking account, and free online billpay... pretty much all I need and hard to mess up.

Lee, why the hell were your checks from Coca-Cola and Pitney Bowes? When we liquidate, the money goes into a money market account and is instantly available to write a check against. If I request a check it is drawn on...some clearing bank...it's been so long since I did that I can't remember, but never from the corporation I sold.

As far as small banks they are a limited time only. I spent the weekend playing in a golf tournament and one the guys has started several banks all with one plan>> Start with $15M. Get people in with extraordinary customer service, know thier names/faces. Hit about $100M in deposits and start looking for a buyer.