I am so doing this when I convert the DSM to track duty....

[Scott]

fuck it im done, this is nonsense, shit up the thread all you want.

Dude, don't get bent out of shape when Feersty says stupid shit. He knows about as much about the track as the squirrels that live there. Don't worry about him.

Yeah I won't worry about him to much, I mean come on, he drives a Focus.....

Says the guy who drives a Miata!

*hides from all the miatafagfanbois* :wink:

That's the key, I DRIVE the Miata (well Miata's)


A perfectly balanced rear wheel drive car!!

[BLINGMW]

its quite helpful for max contact patch on a street tire of that size. I don't really know enough about r-comps to know if the extra contact patch is worth the weight or not...

I THINK I have this right. Let me clarify. The weight of the car doesn't change. The tire pressure doesn't change. So no matter what the tire size, the same amount of rubber will be on the ground. If it's a narrow tire, the contact patch looks more like a circle. If it's a wide tire, it's stretched out. If a tire is spinning, like in a drag start, things work a little differently and I don't understand them then since it's operating more as a fluid than a solid. Wider is probably better in that situation. But I'm speaking about a tire that's on track. So while tire friction might not be the same, simple, high school physics friction where the surface area doesn't matter, in this case, the surface area doesn't even change.

Now if the wider tire means you run less pressure, then I'm not 100% on that one. The contact patch size would increase in that case, and the tire is going to build heat faster since it deforms more. Simple physics says it still doesn't matter..... but I'm just not sure yet. Need to do more reading. :dunno: No. dammit, I'm at work. Need to do work!

I'm also in the bigger=better camp, but I do realize that it also follows the law of decreasing return/negligible gain. I just think it looks hawt.

It's not just decreasing return. There's an optimum tire size for a car. Over, or under that, it's the wrong direction. Less grip. If a tire is cold, like on the street, and you toss it into one corner, I don't know. Maybe it doesn't matter then since neither tire would be up to temp. But if the tire's actually working, the correct size tire would have MORE grip than the tire that's too big.

[Dave]

very interesting.
Fat tires still look better though :-D

[BLINGMW]

I can't argue that! 8)

[white_2kgt]

I wonder how often Chad goes through rotors/brakes?

This is front,
Stock Autozone PFz pads I get 1 weekend of use and they generally cook after 20 minutes or so and are DONE until they cool off. XP10's I get about 1.5 weekends, XP12's I get about 2 weekends of use, XP14's I got 2.5-3 weekends. I hear they have XP16's now...

This was on my 13" 2 Piston calipers, on the 4 pot brembo's I ran XP14's and they showed hardly any wear the one saturday I got to run them for Practice/Qual/~10laps?

Rotors I get a GOOD year out of, these are Brembo blanks, no drilled, no slotted, just blank vented. This is one reason I haven't justified going 2 piece. The hats alone are 300/set then the coleman blanks are around 90/ea. I can get the Brembo Blanks from Tirerack for 62/ea. 2-piece rotors USUALLY save you $$$ in the long run but for me it would be ONLY for weight savings.

Oh and Big tires when you don't have the power/ability to turn them are useless. AIX cars usually top out around 315's for usefulness. I could run a 285 w/ my power/suspension but that'd be about it, any more than that and I'd be fighting the car trying to make it turn. The 275's are just fine. (This is talking about a DOT race tire or Slick).

[D_Eclipse9916]

^^^^^ Chad but this is what I am talking about. Running larger calipers and better calipers, not exactly for the initial brake torque and bite as we all know upgrading calipers and rotors does not do that, only pads. But to increase the life, safety and heat and stress of the system.

Chad if you were offered a Wilwood 4-pot setup with 2-piece rotors, a set of track pads, and a set of street pads for 400 dollars. Would you say no? Hell no, but now my replacement rotors will be only replacing the rotor, not the hat and so I have saved money and saved weight. I can tell you for a fact that I warped my stock rotors within one 30 minute session of hyperfest. If a set of rotors can last me a year with racing and daily duty, then it is worth the cost.
And yes for these rotors because I will be using track duty on them, I will not be running drilled, but I beleive I cant get blanks, so slotted will have to do...I dont know ill have to check.

Bigger is better I always say for street tires, when you start talking about DOT race tires, yes I do agree that there is a proper size. However, I will not be running them, so bigger is better for me.

[white_2kgt]

Chad if you were offered a Wilwood 4-pot setup with 2-piece rotors, a set of track pads, and a set of street pads for 400 dollars. Would you say no? Hell no, but now my replacement rotors will be only replacing the rotor, not the hat and so I have saved money and saved weight.

Nope, I'd jump on that deal, never said I wouldn't, that's what I paid for my used 4pot wilwoods calipers only! . Also if you are going to run street pads and track pads you need 2 sets of rotor faces, so you might as well pickup another set of hats b/c unbolting those faces on Friday night and Sunday night is going to get old, quick. Maybe you should pickup another set of regular 1 piece rotors for the street and save the 2 piece for the track.

No, you can't switch back and forth between 'race' pads and 'street' pads on the same rotor, that's the #1 way to ruin them with the quickness. Especially with Carbotech XP's.

[Mike]

OR just run your track pads all the time

[white_2kgt]

OR just run your track pads all the time

another good way to destroy a set of rotors :roll:

[Mike]

OR just run your track pads all the time

another good way to destroy a set of rotors :roll:

not if you drive the car once a month.

[BLINGMW]

Bigger is better I always say for street tires

Why do you believe it's different for street tires? While I agree that using street tires might require them to be a bit wider to deal with the heat, and they have a lower ideal operating range, there's still such a thing as too wide. Now if "too wide" just isn't possible in your application, I don't know, you might be right about that!

[white_2kgt]

OR just run your track pads all the time

another good way to destroy a set of rotors :roll:

not if you drive the car once a month.

maybe if you just back it up your driveway. Just a quick drive to the corner store though on XP's is going to do a number on rotors.

[Andy]

Assuming wheel width and tire pressures are static, getting wider tires changes the tire patch shape. The tire patch area stays the same but the leading edge of the patch is now wider which is where the tire's work is being done. So going wider helps but only till a certain point. After that, the increased weight and inability of the tire to build up heat outweigh the gains of a wider leading edge irrespective of rubber compound e.g. these rules apply for both R-Comps as well as street tires. There's a whole book on tire engineering. I'll try to find it when I get home.

[.RJ]

I never had issues daily driving on XP8's or XP10's. The pads wear a little faster, but the rotors were no worse for it.

[Kaan]

Rich in tech used to run a 4wd Talon in Firehawk. They destroyed so many brakes that they went to the FWD model with the same turbo set up... the brakes held up. talk to him if you want to know about those cars.

[white_2kgt]

I never had issues daily driving on XP8's or XP10's. The pads wear a little faster, but the rotors were no worse for it.

mine were all galled up, deep grooves, nasty. how in the hell did you keep heat in XP10s on the street? It's been a while since I ran 10's but the 14's took almost a full lap to heat up.

[.RJ]

I never ran the 14's. But 8's were very street friendly and not abusive to rotors at all, either hot or cold. They were even pretty quiet on the street too!

[D_Eclipse9916]

Do you know if he ran 1g or 2gs?

Unfortunately 1g and 2gs suspension are completely different.

So logic cannot apply between the two. The fwd is WAYYY lighter, but they have different brakes, shocks, and springs. Do you know if he modified them or put the AWD brakes on the fwd?

I am not worried about my 13x1.10 rotors fading, id really doubt that, but you never know. With the right pad, id have to be superman to get them to fade.

Mainly my suspension setup and tire package is now what I need to research and learn. I am still learning about our funky 2g active camber curve and what shock/coilover setup to go with. I am leaning toward custom-valved konis with ground control rates at 700 front, 400 rear for some neutral to oversteer handling.

I have a battery relocation kit, but why run tons of 4-gauge wire to the back, a box, mounting brackets, kill switch...blah blah blah, when I could just go to a small braille or oddyssey battery and save money, weight, and also the small battery allows it to mount right next to the firewall behind the front suspension and atop the subframe for key location.

Weight in this car will be the key factor, its already got a great suspension design, great brakes, great power, awd, but its a pig.
Going to carbon fiber hood and maybe carbon fiber hatch. Losing the leather, already removed a/c, remove most interior panels and sound deadening along with sound system, along with a few other small things, i may be able to get her down to 3000 or 3100 lbs witht he driver, maybe even 2900 with the carbon fiber hatch, aluminum intercooler piping, and titanium exhaust.

[.RJ]

700f/400r seems like it would be way pushy for an AWD car - do you know what the motion ratios are front and rear?

[CaptainHenreh]

Do you know if he ran 1g or 2gs?

He ran 1G's.

1G DSM's were apparently at least not unknown in the firehawk series.