Grassroots Motorsports Challenge

[Jess]

TAKE IT. Please. For my sake.

and another for good measure: "Do it"

[Dave]

my god what a busted pile.


Sounds like fun :twisted:

[CaptainHenreh]

Oh God.

It starts.

How about a small-block chevy E30?

[Chris]

Oh God.

It starts.

How about a small-block chevy E30?

thought about that... nick said there is a lot of fabrication involved?

[Nick325is]

The fabrication involved is alot of front end reinforcing and custom motor mounts. Also you have to get a custom driveshaft i believe. Let me dig up that thread on the v8 e30 swap.


Nick

[Nick325is]

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77240&highlight=ls1+e30%2A">http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... ls1+e30%2A</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.dtmpower.net/forum/showthread.php?t=62914&highlight=e30">http://www.dtmpower.net/forum/showthrea ... hlight=e30</a><!-- m -->


Lots of fab involved. Granted these are LS1 and LS6 swaps its still pretty much the same.
Hope the links work.
A post from one of the threads.


I never wanted a BMW until they put the 3.2 M engine in the Z3. I loved my 2000 M roadster. I loved my 2001 M3 convertible. IÔÇÖve owned many Porsche Speedsters including lightweight Carreras, one of which, I built a 904 engine for. I had a 1978 Turbo, a 512 Boxer, and most recently an ERA Cobra for which I built a stump pulling, all aluminum Shelby 464 cid motor that produce over 400 hp and 400 ft lbs of torque from 1500 to 6000 rpm. However, I have gotten hooked on Bimmers. If you read any Bimmer info you frequently run into the people who whine about the E30 M3 and that it was the only real M car and why doesnÔÇÖt BMW make another M car with the feel and spirit of the old M3. Now at a portly 3400 and 3700 lbs. the E46 M3 coupe and convertible will never feel like the E30 at 2800 lbs. I do plan on getting my no option, except SMG, '03 M3 coupe down to 3200# (no fuel included) by installing lightweight seats. We'll see how close I can get to that weight. WeÔÇÖll see if I even take delivery. IÔÇÖve followed articles about E30s with 3.2 M engines, E36s with the big and small BMW V8s and they look interesting but why get hung-up on only Bavarian power plants when Detroit, i.e. Corvette, has invested bucket loads full of money into developing a new, all aluminum and plastic small-block V-8 that is simple, light and can be mildly tweaked to produce gobs of emission legal power at a very reasonable cost.

I originally was going to do the fairly popular engine swap of putting the wonderful 3.2 M engine in an E30. After researching the cost and the amount of work involved I concluded that the aluminum V8 was less expensive, about the same weight, had much more power and would take about the same amount of work.

The first step was to obtain, in this case rent, one of those foam replicas of a small-block Chevy engine and a tranny and make a trip to the local junkyard. Imagine the looks youÔÇÖd get walking through a junkyard on a Saturday afternoon with an engine under one arm and a transmission under the other. Anyway, it became obvious that there was plenty of room in an E30 engine bay for a small-block Chevy so I knew the LS1/ LS6 would also fit. I studied all of the transmission and bell housing possibilities and the new aluminum 6-speed T-56 from ÔÇÖ98 and newer Cameros and Firebirds got the nod partly because it was made for the LS1/LS6 but also because measurements indicated it would fit well.

My appetite was sufficiently whetted that I decided to look for the chassis. The obvious choice is a pristine E30 with a blown engine for about $500; very, very difficult to find, especially when you are in a hurry. Next is a piece of crap with a blown engine but if you ever do get the drive train in you have to spend a fortune turning it into a decent car. I bought a very nice black 1987 325is for $6000 and started planning all of the modifications I would make, 5-bolt wheels, bigger brakes, etc., etc. I hated to take that super little car apart. It had only 95000 mi on it. I knew I couldnÔÇÖt sell all of the parts I was going to take off of it for enough to reduce the investment significantly. Then along came a very nice 1988 M3, at what I later came to realize was a steal at $7000. I remembered that this car had 5-bolt wheels, bigger brakes, wider fenders, a 4.10 diff., quicker steering, tighter suspension and better suspension geometry. I couldnÔÇÖt turn it down and I was sure I could sell the 325 for what I had paid for it so I brought the M3 home. The thing that I wasnÔÇÖt prepared for was the added bonus that all of the parts that would be discarded were saleable for enough to almost cover the original cost of the M3.

When I say LS6 or ZO6 I must confess that is only for bragging rights and hp identification. The engine is actually a new LS1 I purchased from Shaun Carter (<!-- e --><a href="mailto:valvegod@aol.com">valvegod@aol.com</a><!-- e -->). 95% of the parts on the LS1 and LS6 are identical and by changing the cam, doing some head work and adding an LS6 intake manifold the LS1 can easily produce more power than the LS6.

I was committed once the engine and transmission were purchased . When I raised that tranny up into the tunnel and bolted it to the engine I had to pinch myself it fit so well. The shifter actually fit exactly in the center of the hole in the tunnel where the original shifter was. I did end up moving the entire unit ┬¥ÔÇØ back to improve the overall configuration. In order to move it back I had to modify the GM Holden Austrailian oil pan. It looks like this engine and tranny were made for this car. The weight of the engine and tranny should be very little more than an iron-block BMW 6 cylinder engine and tranny so brake and suspension modifications are not necessary although I will undoubtedly do some. The entire balance and feel of the original E30 M3 should be retained but with about twice the horsepower and torque and without having to rev the engine to 7500 rpm to get the ponies. The gear ratios are perfect for the 4.10 diff. and the 24.6ÔÇØ, 215/45/17 tires on 8ÔÇØ rims. At 60 mph in 6th the engine is at 1625 rpm. What a cruiser!

Mild modification, aluminum flywheel, cam, re-flash ecu and mild headwork (about 200 hours of my own time) will put over 400 hp to the rear wheels (450 at the flywheel) and that should satisfy any M3 nerd; even me.

Will I toast the diff., the axels and the rear trailing arms? Probably, but I can make the modifications to install an M5 or 7 series diff. and axels if needed. The trailing arms can be beefed-up for more strength.

I completely disassembled the new engine to check everything out and blueprint it. I up-graded the rod bolts, ported the oil-pump, installed ARP head-studs, up-graded the timing gears (Cloyes) and chain (HME-G68VC-60), Comp Cams chrome molly pushrods, modified a GM Holden oil pan, installed a carefully selected cam (.569ÔÇØ intake and exhaust lift, 522/526 duration @ .050). I checked the specs. out of many, many valve springs and settled on Lunati PN# 73100 with Ferrea titanium valve spring retainers.

The cooling system is complete. IÔÇÖm using a Meziere remote electric water pump (pn# WP 316 S) mounted in front of the windshield washer fluid container behind the right headlights, which I will control from a rheostat to control water temp., a Summit Racing aluminum radiator (pn#380325 or 380425, which ever one has the lower hose on the driverÔÇÖs side) and a Spaal 16ÔÇØ, 2.48ÔÇØ thick electric fan that Summit ordered from Griffin for me. I fabricated .5ÔÇØ aluminum adapters to fit the water inlet and outlet holes in the block and welded Earls 90 degree aluminum, ┬¥ÔÇØ hose barb fittings to them for my water lines. I am just finishing the exhaust system which consists of stock stainless GM headers (I canÔÇÖt remember which GM car theyÔÇÖre of off but Shaun would know), cut and modified with 2.5ÔÇØ down pipes connecting to 2.5ÔÇØ tubing back to the Edelbrock 5512 muffler. I will begin installing the engine wiring harness, finalize my brake master cyl. choice, connect the brake lines and select my wheels and tires.

There is a multitude of little problems to sort out but thatÔÇÖs what I love doing. At age 58, and while in my 31st year of dental practice, this project is providing me with, other than my family, my greatest moments of personal satisfaction and mental stimulation.

I do reconsider this project frequently and sometimes, after talking with an E30 M3 fanatic, wonder whether IÔÇÖm defiling the Marque. But it doesnÔÇÖt take long for me to become re-enthused about an E30 M3 with serious non-high-revving HP at almost no weight or balance penalty. Why not! These cars are not THAT rare. They are very cool and theyÔÇÖre the cheapest, coolest way to make a serious BMW hotrod. I sold my ÔÇÖ01 E46 M3 convertible, and plan to replace it with a 9/6/2002 build-date, ÔÇÖ03 M3, SMG, zero other option, coupe, with seats to be replaced with 15# race seats, to produce a 3200# car (still 250# more than a Porsche). If I do take delivery, it will provide my daily transportation while the ÔÇÖ88 takes shape. The closer the GMW gets to completion, and it is very close, the less inclined I am to take delivery of another new car with all of those worries about the first door-ding, the engine failures and the feeling that you have to park it five miles away from the nearest car in the mall parking lot and still run out every five minutes to see if a beater, Detroit ÔÇÿ70s sled, with 200# doors, has parked right next to you.

Come on BMW, give us some cool stuff. At least a lightweight (under 3000#) E46 M3 with aV8 or even a well engineered torquey little 6, at a reasonable price, not cheap, not near $100,000, not without air, but reasonable. We beg you!

To take delivery of the ÔÇÖ03 coupe or not? I feel IÔÇÖd have to press the dealer to give me a 100,000 mile engine warranty to feel comfortable. But, do I really want it at all as I get closer to completion on the GMW?


Nick

[BLINGMW]

Good story. :wink:

so yeah, you guys going to go for my E30? Sure, I'll keep it in my name if that helps, someone's gotta own it. Just don't point to me when it grenades and you get a valve through your forehead. :lol: Really though, the V8 swap is the way to go, just depends on how much experience those working on it have and how much time and effort you want to put into it. It could be an easy show up and place ok car, or it could be a lot of work and a place well car. Not a whole lot of originality points for an E30, but hey, it's just a good cheap platform.

Go get it! Will need a tow to the 'burg, then do what you like with it. Someone make the call. 8) $1 offer only stands if it turns into a challenge car or at the very least a project autocross monster or drift car for the club to beat on. And I can help out if you do need some new (or even used, there's a good yard down here) parts to get it up to spec.

[Nick325is]

Sounds good man. The e30 gets a new home!


Nick

[lyltoy]

i could probably provide the tow, all we would need is to rent a Uhaul trailer for the day...

[GT]

I can get a '92 Nissan 240SX with 135k-140k mi. on it for $500 if I act fast as the seller is about to trade it in. It needs a new clutch, a fuel filter, spark plug wires, and spark plugs. As far as the seller, who is the second owner (since ~60k mi.), knows, it has never been in an accident.

[CaptainHenreh]

I can get a '92 Nissan 240SX with 135k-140k mi. on it for $500 if I act fast as the seller is about to trade it in. It needs a new clutch, a fuel filter, spark plug wires, and spark plugs. As far as the seller, who is the second owner (since ~60k mi.), knows, it has never been in an accident.

No! Non! Nyet! Nein! Not another goddamn 240SX!

[Feersty]

We got two threads going crazy, one here and one in events, this is tight.

[G.Irish]

Well the 240 has great handling and it'd be easy to sell once we're done with it.

[Dave]

aside from the clutch, the other parts could prolly be done for ~$50. Might be worth it, but its a quarter of our budget and we haven'te ven raised any money yet. Prolly have to let this one slide.

[G.Irish]

I don't think money will be any problem to tell the truth. I think we could easily score the $2000 as well as extra money for equipment.

[Andy]

Got any fundraising ideas?

[BLINGMW]

wouldn't ya know. I've got two fools asking for more info and seem semi-serious on the car. I'd much rather donate it to you all, should I send these guys away?

[Chris]

wouldn't ya know. I've got two fools asking for more info and seem semi-serious on the car. I'd much rather donate it to you all, should I send these guys away?

I really wish we could give you a direct answer right now Chan. Things are up in the air at the moment and we don't have the details figured out. There are plenty of cars out there for us if you really need the cash.

[Dave]

wouldn't ya know. I've got two fools asking for more info and seem semi-serious on the car. I'd much rather donate it to you all, should I send these guys away?

If somebody is going to actually BUY that pile from you, go for it. There are plenty of cheap cars out there. If they don't buy it, we'll keep on considering it :-)

[Kaan]

in all seriousness we need to have the money then look for the car... chan can ALWAYS find a busted E30 for sale if you really think thats the chassis to go with... i mean look at all the ones he has already!

btw... if we are into this at all, we need to get a serious fundraising thing going NOW!