Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!)

[SlimKlim]

You haven't said why it's not theft. 

emphasis mine

Definition of theft. 1a : the act of stealing specifically : the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it. b : an unlawful taking (as by embezzlement or burglary) of property.

[Apoc]

I think you're manipulating the definition of theft to suit your argument. Taxes are written law, is choosing to continue to live here and implicitly receive the benefits of tax-payer funded services like police/fire not considered your consent?

Or, rather, Rex doesn't believe codified law is the only definition of theft.

The argument is precipitated on the idea that just because the government decides something is legal/illegal, doesn't change the intent of the action.

Is choosing to live here considered your consent for Trump as our president and all his racist/homophobic/sexist remarks?

[rherold9]

Give Rex 20 years. When retires he'll go to some deserted island. Create his libertarian government. No taxes. He'll be out there building his own power lines from the power station to his property, internet lines to his property, roads to his property, etc. "TAXES ARE THEFT", he yells at the clouds shaking his fist with his shovel in the ground next to him.

[CaptainHenreh]

Seems like we are all on the same page though. Just opinions on why taxes suck or don't now. Fair enough.

I mean, if you resign yourself to some bullshit like "Taxes are the price we pay to live in a civilized society" or "Well there's an implied social contract the minute you acquire citizenship," then you acknowledge that "your" property isn't really yours. It's on loan to the government and they can take as much as they want as long as they make it "legal". 

But if instead you believe that taxation is theft and therefore immoral then the squandering of that ill-gotten gain is all the more egregious, and maybe the next time you hear someone talk about spending eleventy billion of YOUR goddamn dollhairs on a fucking wall (or pick your bullshit), maybe you won't just go "well that's the way it is..."

[*insertusernamehere*]

I can't imagine how much more of a shit show America would be if they didn't steal our money

[Kaan]

Taxes are written law

Are all laws actually legal? We wouldnt have a Supreme Court if they were. Do all laws stand for a life time? Absolutely not. 

From the Fed to the local city... citizens pay a lot of taxes. I think the issue is how the money is being spent and "some people" dont want to see more taxes until they figure out the spending part.

[CaptainHenreh]

You haven't said why it's not theft. 

emphasis mine

Definition of theft. 1a : the act of stealing specifically : the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it. b : an unlawful taking (as by embezzlement or burglary) of property.

That isn't demonstrating anything but what Miriam Webster says. Other definitions (I can google too!) don't include felonious or unlawful. If it's demonstrably false, then demonstrate. 

[rherold9]

I mean, I stated I don't want my taxes going towards more wall. It's a useless, waste of money. As I said, that doesn't mean the taxes I paid is theft from me.

[Jake]

Agreed, Kaan. Not liking how some taxes are allocated is one thing (which we can all agree with, to various degrees).

Rex is implying that all taxation is theft, yet he is not providing his own, clearly better, solution. And that's where his "I want to bark but not bite" argument falls down.

[rherold9]

Are all laws actually legal? We wouldnt have a Supreme Court if they were. Do all laws stand for a life time? Absolutely not. 

From the Fed to the local city... citizens pay a lot of taxes. I think the issue is how the money is being spent and "some people" dont want to see more taxes until they figure out the spending part.

They are until they aren't laws. Some things are legal that aren't laws yet. People are still trying to argue this point though while inserting point a,b,c into the argument. That's not how it works lol. That's a different argument. Taxes aren't being spent where you like it. Sure. I get that and agree.

[Apoc]

Rex is implying that all taxation is theft, yet he is not providing his own, clearly better, solution. And that's where his "I want to bark but not bite" argument falls down.

This answer is pretty easy to find, if one were to look.

https://www.lp.org/platform/

[CaptainHenreh]

Agreed, Kaan. Not liking how some taxes are allocated is one thing (which we can all agree with, to various degrees).

Rex is implying that all taxation is theft, yet he is not providing his own, clearly better, solution. And that's where his "I want to bark but not bite" argument falls down.

I'm not advocating any specific course of action beyond "Start thinking of your tax dollars as an involuntary contribution to a System, and adjust your perception accordingly." That's it. 

I could do a lot of good by stealing other people's money. Hell, even other people's money they aren't using, I could do a LOT of good things. But that wouldn't make it moral or right. (Even if it were somehow codified to be legal.)

[Apoc]

Are all laws actually legal? We wouldnt have a Supreme Court if they were. Do all laws stand for a life time? Absolutely not. 

From the Fed to the local city... citizens pay a lot of taxes. I think the issue is how the money is being spent and "some people" dont want to see more taxes until they figure out the spending part.

They are until not legal. Some things are illegal that aren't laws yet. People are still trying to argue this point though while inserting point a,b,c into the argument. That's not how it works lol. That's a different argument. Taxes aren't being spent where you like it. Sure. I get that and agree.

Some things are illegal that aren't laws yet? How, exactly, does that work? Law is how things become illegal...

[rherold9]

Some things are illegal that aren't laws yet? How, exactly, does that work? Law is how things become illegal...

legal*. Did I need to clarify my mistake? :eye-roll:

[*insertusernamehere*]

OK, they're stealing money, now what?

Are we ok with it?

Mad?

What do we do?

Whats the point here?

Follow through for me baby

[Ken]

Rex is implying that all taxation is theft, yet he is not providing his own, clearly better, solution. And that's where his "I want to bark but not bite" argument falls down.

This answer is pretty easy to find, if one were to look.

https://www.lp.org/platform/

"To the extent possible, we advocate that all public services be funded in a voluntary manner."

lolz. 

[Apoc]

Some things are illegal that aren't laws yet? How, exactly, does that work? Law is how things become illegal...

legal*. Did I need to clarify my mistake? :eye-roll:

Yes, you do need to clarify your statement when you typed the opposite thing.

[Ken]

I think you're manipulating the definition of theft to suit your argument. Taxes are written law, is choosing to continue to live here and implicitly receive the benefits of tax-payer funded services like police/fire not considered your consent?

Have you considered shopping for old barges you can push out into international waters?

My fire department works just fine without any tax dollars. I freely give to them and they operate just fine. 

You haven't said why it's not theft. 

If the government said I had to let someone have sex with me or the police would come and throw me in jail, that'd still be rape, even if it were written into law.

Hold up.

Aren't you in Harrisonburg?  Cuz, if so, that sucker got nearly 9M in tax doll hairs. 

Harrisonburg, VA 2019 FY Budget

[rherold9]

Pure Libertarian government is close to the most unreasonable and unlikely form of government. It all sounds great in theory until no one pays shit "voluntarily". Then everyone gets screwed. What would be better is a mix of taxes + less spending on waste-less poop.

Hey bro, you want those power lines to your house? Hehehe, yeah we'll put them to your house with you fronting the bill. Good luck.

Oh, your house is on fire? Sorry, not enough people volunteered money to put it out. We'll put it out if you pay us directly though.

[SlimKlim]

Agreed, Kaan. Not liking how some taxes are allocated is one thing (which we can all agree with, to various degrees).

Rex is implying that all taxation is theft, yet he is not providing his own, clearly better, solution. And that's where his "I want to bark but not bite" argument falls down.

I'm not advocating any specific course of action beyond "Start thinking of your tax dollars as an involuntary contribution to a System, and adjust your perception accordingly." That's it. 

You have an exceptionally roundabout way of suggesting people be more attentive to government spending, which is a statement no one disagrees with.