Honda pulling out of F1, who's next?

[Jeff]

Speaking on NASCAR. I don't think any manufacturer accept Toyota is having anything to do with the truck series anymore...which I think is rather funny. I bet they will say "fuck this redneck shit" and quit wasting money on it before too long as well. As for the Sprint Cup I guess it just rests on the bailout. But I think the big 3 should be required to cut spending on things like that as part of the bridge loan plan. Once the economy rebounds and things get better we can start spending money on that crap again. When you think about it from an economics point of view, auto racing is a very wasteful enterprise. All the fuel that is wasted, man hours spent, machinery that requires maintenance, not to mention all the pollution that is created. All this to watch a car go around an oval for 500 laps and listen to rednecks talk about tire wear...you can do that shit down at the Jiffy Lube. [/rant]

[Evan]

I have a Honda F1 Flag, a Subaru WRC Flag, and a Redbull F1 flag....
if Rebull pulls out of F1 then Im officially the racing curse of death

[Steve85]

When you think about it from an economics point of view, auto racing is a very wasteful enterprise. [/rant]

Not so fast...

man hours spent,

Salaries for workers is good

machinery that requires maintenance

Machines designed, built, shippped, installed, operated, and maintained by people with salaries

fuel that is wasted

Specialized fuel that pays for petrochemical engineers and people to develop and test for standards for the race gas.

all the pollution that is created

Encourages Gov't spending on environmental research and reduction programs

go around an oval for 500 laps and listen to rednecks

Beer sales. We already lost Budweiser... I'd hate to drink Koors Light

Auto racing is the cornerstone of the American economy. Spread the word. 1 in 1 American jobs are supported by the racing industry.

"Help me baby Jesus, help me Tom Cruise..."

On a more serious note, concerning F1...How do countries lose their GP's? Do they pay the FIA for the privilege of hosting?

[.RJ]

How do countries lose their GP's? Do they pay the FIA for the privilege of hosting?

They pay bernie, and he is a greedy fuck.

Unfortunately theres places that will lose money to host races, feeding it further. Bernie tried to raise the fees for the US and canadia, so they bailed.

[G.Irish]

On a more serious note, concerning F1...How do countries lose their GP's? Do they pay the FIA for the privilege of hosting?

Almost, they pay CVC, the commercial rights holders, a sanctioning fee to hold a race. Bernie Ecclestone usually also has some pretty stringent demands as to the facilities at the track so a lot of tracks have to spend millions on improvements to the garages, paddock, and hospitality.

In recent years the sanctioning fee has ballooned to $30 million or more for some of the new races like Singapore, Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, and Valencia. Bernie wanted $30 million for the Indy GP and that's why Indy is not on the schedule anymore. He was asking too much for France and Canada too, that's why they're gone. England's GP has been threatened in recent years too over facilities improvements.

[NTIman]

Speaking on NASCAR. I don't think any manufacturer accept Toyota is having anything to do with the truck series anymore...which I think is rather funny. I bet they will say "fuck this redneck shit" and quit wasting money on it before too long as well. As for the Sprint Cup I guess it just rests on the bailout. But I think the big 3 should be required to cut spending on things like that as part of the bridge loan plan. Once the economy rebounds and things get better we can start spending money on that crap again. When you think about it from an economics point of view, auto racing is a very wasteful enterprise. All the fuel that is wasted, man hours spent, machinery that requires maintenance, not to mention all the pollution that is created. All this to watch a car go around an oval for 500 laps and listen to rednecks talk about tire wear...you can do that shit down at the Jiffy Lube. [/rant]

All of which is still cheaper than buying advertising time on prime time TV from what I've heard.

[stevegula]

Not so fast...

man hours spent,

Salaries for workers is good

Encouraging something that is wasteful for the sake of jobs is not good economics (like bailing out manufacturers so they're still royally fucked by unions). You don't want to maintain market inefficiencies, you want to increase market efficiencies.

[Jeff]

Of what real advertising value is NASCAR? The real cars are not being proven to be better then one another. Win on Sunday, sell on Monday no longer applies here. That shit died in the 80's. The people who would buy a Chevy because it races well are the people who were going to buy a Chevy anyway.

As for the economics of it... I see the point that it creates a whole industry that supports jobs...jobs = spending = good economy. Ok, but what about the application of man hours? Couldn't these minds be put to more meaningful tasks? My point being what does it all mean? What does a purpose built car going 500 times around an oval mean for mankind? Barely entertaining if you ask me. At least road course racing is interesting. The only time I watch Stock car racing is when it is at a road course.

And pollution...how does racing (EPA exempt correct?) support more gov spending? You might have been joking so I'll leave that point there.

[Jeff]

Not so fast...

man hours spent,

Salaries for workers is good

Encouraging something that is wasteful for the sake of jobs is not good economics (like bailing out manufacturers so they're still royally fucked by unions). You don't want to maintain market inefficiencies, you want to increase market efficiencies.

Posted while I was writing...exactly. If the bailout (god I hate that term) goes though, I think a condition has to be the unions getting a grip on reality.

[Maengelito]

just as a side tangent, the pollution associated with NASCAR probably pales in comparison to its fan base. Think about 40 cars getting 4 miles to the gallon for 500 miles compared to however many trucks, RVs and cars that are idling to get 250,000 fans out of the parking lot and back home to wherever they're from.

Don't take this as an endorsement of NASCAR because honestly, I dont care much for it but if you're concerned about the pollution, don't support it.

[Steve85]

Not so fast...

man hours spent,

Salaries for workers is good

Encouraging something that is wasteful for the sake of jobs is not good economics (like bailing out manufacturers so they're still royally fucked by unions). You don't want to maintain market inefficiencies, you want to increase market efficiencies.

Whose opinion of wasteful? The billions of dollars a year spent on racing from 8yr olds in Jr Dragster to F1 says that thousands of companies and millions of people and corporations see value in it. If the sales per dollar spent on racing are high enough to support its existence, how is that inefficient? Remember, racing is about marketing, not production.

What does a purpose built car going 500 times around an oval mean for mankind? Barely entertaining if you ask me.

Says a guy who shoots clay disks and beer cans with military weapons.

Of what real advertising value is NASCAR? The real cars are not being proven to be better then one another. Win on Sunday, sell on Monday no longer applies here.

It has not been about the cars for a long time, nothing new there. The names of the products on the cars reach one of the most loyal base of shoppers perhaps anywhere.

At least road course racing is interesting. The only time I watch Stock car racing is when it is at a road course

Interesting..I would argue road racing is only interesting when it is stock cars. BTW I do not watch any racing really. To be completely honest only drag racing with a winner and loser every minute (kind of like series of football plays) will hold my interest for more than 10 minutes.

Now, before we get our panties in a twist please note the quote from Talladega nights and the reference to a coming serious statement as evidence that I was indeed just having some fun.

However, I do stand by my statement that there is value in racing whether you see it, like it, or not. And its funding (perceived value) will cycle with the strength of the advertisers and participants. As this thread has evidenced, that perceived value is taking a HUGE hit.

[NTIman]

Of what real advertising value is NASCAR? The real cars are not being proven to be better then one another. Win on Sunday, sell on Monday no longer applies here. That shit died in the 80's. The people who would buy a Chevy because it races well are the people who were going to buy a Chevy anyway.

As for the economics of it... I see the point that it creates a whole industry that supports jobs...jobs = spending = good economy. Ok, but what about the application of man hours? Couldn't these minds be put to more meaningful tasks? My point being what does it all mean? What does a purpose built car going 500 times around an oval mean for mankind? Barely entertaining if you ask me. At least road course racing is interesting. The only time I watch Stock car racing is when it is at a road course.

And pollution...how does racing (EPA exempt correct?) support more gov spending? You might have been joking so I'll leave that point there.

Of what real advertisting value is any form of racing? I see all kinds or sponsors on the cars at NASA events, and I can't think of anything more boring, not to mention there is a major lack of spectators.

I realize the cars are not real cars, but Dale Earnhardt Sr. and Jr. have sold more Monte Carlos than any other form of advertising.

[John]

Meanwhile with oil prices falling off a cliff the big oil races like Bahrain and Abu Dhabi may decide that they're not down to play anymore. China was already on the bubble and so is Australia and Malaysia supposedly.

Most of those countries' incomes don't come from oil (especially the UAE) - that's why the smaller Gulf states have reinvested themselves in finance and other industries.

[Jeff]

Meanwhile with oil prices falling off a cliff the big oil races like Bahrain and Abu Dhabi may decide that they're not down to play anymore. China was already on the bubble and so is Australia and Malaysia supposedly.

Most of those countries' incomes don't come from oil (especially the UAE) - that's why the smaller Gulf states have reinvested themselves in finance and other industries.

Like Real Estate.

[stevegula]

Of what real advertising value is NASCAR? The real cars are not being proven to be better then one another. Win on Sunday, sell on Monday no longer applies here. That shit died in the 80's. The people who would buy a Chevy because it races well are the people who were going to buy a Chevy anyway.

As for the economics of it... I see the point that it creates a whole industry that supports jobs...jobs = spending = good economy. Ok, but what about the application of man hours? Couldn't these minds be put to more meaningful tasks? My point being what does it all mean? What does a purpose built car going 500 times around an oval mean for mankind? Barely entertaining if you ask me. At least road course racing is interesting. The only time I watch Stock car racing is when it is at a road course.

And pollution...how does racing (EPA exempt correct?) support more gov spending? You might have been joking so I'll leave that point there.

Of what real advertisting value is any form of racing? I see all kinds or sponsors on the cars at NASA events, and I can't think of anything more boring, not to mention there is a major lack of spectators.

I realize the cars are not real cars, but Dale Earnhardt Sr. and Jr. have sold more Monte Carlos than any other form of advertising.

NASCAR marketing "is serious business". We actually talked about it in my MBA marketing class - real NASCAR fans are f'n ridiculous about their loyalties to their manufacturer, major sponsor, and driver. Anyone who's attended a race should attest to that. They're pretty much the exception that proves the rule.

[NTIman]

For anyone who doubts the advertising value of NASCAR, they haven't been to richmond for the fall race, the one sponsored by chevrolet. They have all kinds of new vehicles there to look at inside and out, as well as show vehicles, race cars, etc..