Chrysler goes private?

[Maengelito]

Which Chrysler are you talking about? Caliber seems to be a very well put together little car. Every bit as well put together as Rex's car. Not as cool, but well put together. I mean, just as much as I love, you hate. I'm not saying they are the best cars in the world, not by a long shot. But they are not the worst. For every shitty Chrysler you have been in, I have been in 10 that are fine. For every POS Toyota I have been in at Circuit city you have been in 10 that are OMG BEST CARS EVAR!!!11!!11! It goes both ways.

Every car/car company has someone that will "never buy one!" American car companies have let it slip since the late 70's so they get what they deserve. The market is forcing them to correct quality, cut costs, and compete with the Japanese. John is right when he speaks of old technologies. The 2.4L takes its technology from the early 80's. Most of the Neon's suspension was directly from the K-car. The 4-speed Chrysler automatic is one of the worst auto trannies ever. So I'm not trying to make them out to be the best cars...but far from the plight of locusts you make them out to be.

someone needs to change their pad... :lol:

[.RJ]

Ford hasn't made much worth a damn either it seems.

They got it right with the trucks... the rest of their cars are ho-hum, maybe. I did have a rental focus that had a really strong e-brake, so that gets a :thumbup:

[white_2kgt]

Which Chrysler are you talking about?

*

The last car they made worth a damn was the K car, and that ain't saying much.

Wow...and you are a Ford man?

Yea, so? Because I like Fords I have to like all American Junk? There's a reason my Trucks a Ford, the daily driver's a mazda and the race car's a mustang. There isn't a single other Ford I'd buy other than the F series, maybe another Expedition and a mustang (I don't have the $$$ for a GT40). If I'm going to buy another sedan, it will most likely start with B and end with MW.

I could car less about Fords stock, the govt has screwed the American automaker with the union's, there's a reason most fords are made in Mexico and Canada and Toyota's are made in the USA now :roll:
Chrysler just needs to die off and give up. They have nothing keeping them afloat, at least Ford has the trucks and Chevy has GMC.

[HAULN-SS]

Chevy's actually doing pretty good these days... The silverado's that've come out aren't doing as good as they should be, but still not doing bad at all. The volt is supposed to be coming out by 2010 which is supposed to get 150mpg on a highway trip..that's pretty amazing..we'll see I guess. the new malibu is just as good as a camry or anything else in it's class.

They're putting a lot of muscle back in their lines. Almost all of their SS programs are succesful, and of course their LS engines will pretty much keep a steady few faithful for a long long time.

[.RJ]

Chevy's actually doing pretty good these days...

In terms of what? GM is still losing money and their sedans only suck slightly less than the chrysler stuff.

I'll believe the 150mpg crap when I see it.. :roll: Does it have a smokey yunick carburetor on it?

[HAULN-SS]

Improvement over previous years

[.RJ]

Improvement over previous years

WRT what? Financials? Product Quality? Reliability? Derek's fucked-up-opinion-meter?

They are losing money.... so "sucking less than we did a few years ago" isnt going to keep them in business.

[Andy]

GM as an entity has turned 2 consecutive profitable quarters but their GMAC wing lost its ass on sub-prime loans. All in all, I'm digging a bunch of new GM products. Ford sucks ass but at least they show evidence of the ability to build quality cars e.g. Ford Europe. All the rags that have driven the European Focuses, Kaa and Mondeo rave about their quality and good looks. Where as Chrysler can't build a damn thing that is remotely appealing to me. They are breathing off the fumes of yesteryear with the BS Hemi ad campaign, generic designs and recycling of classic name plates.

I will concede that the interior of my friends Charger SRT-8 is rather nice.

[HAULN-SS]

RJ: i don't think they have to worry about keeping in business. Chevrolet's been doing a lot more world business int he last few years, in korea, and china, etc..and doing quite well with it.

and GM as a whole is doing pretty well itself. Lots of new stuff on the way that'll surely improve their image as well, as long as they do it right. On the opposite scale as the volt, for example, is coming the v12 cadillac..should be pretty awesome. The Camaro is coming out, and in the small SUV market or whatever the HHR SS is coming out, which is what the PT cruiser should've been. Also - that new G8 or whatever pontiac is putting out will be a pretty kick ass sedan. Pontiac's have generally had pretty nice interiors..I really like the GTO's interior for example.

[bassmangrammy]

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm/country/ecf/newsID/2060724.006/mini/pml-builds-640hp-electric-mini">http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm/co ... ctric-mini</a><!-- m -->

[.RJ]

http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm/cou...ctric-mini

:?:

Whats this got to do with chrysler, shitty american cars, or Jeff's unhealthy obsession?

[WRXtranceformed]

http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm/cou...ctric-mini

:?:

Whats this got to do with chrysler, shitty american cars, or Jeff's unhealthy obsession?

Each wheel of that Mini has more horsepower than the entire minivan engine.

[Ginger]

RJ: i don't think they have to worry about keeping in business. Chevrolet's been doing a lot more world business int he last few years, in korea, and china, etc..and doing quite well

The discussion about whether or not GM is a good business should be kind of irrelevant right now.

Both GM and Ford reached junk bond status in the fall 2005 as rated by S&P.... granted they are at B now but that's still 5 grades below investment grade. This should not be a statement qualified of a business on the cusp of re-reaching sucecss:

GM as an entity has turned 2 consecutive profitable quarters.

Remember, businesses are in the market to make money.

But, of course, when you've got progressives and nationalist sentiments on your side then you never really have to worry about whether or not the miserable government protection mechanism will kick in to save you and make the world worse off for everybody else.

[Jeff]

I'm almost done with my own thread here. I don't need to read pages and pages of useless bulls(tuff) that won't amount to anything. That is all this f(reakinÔÇÖ) forum is anyway, a platform for people to run their mouths about meaningless s(tuff). (myself included)

@ Chad
I knew the stock thing was irrelevant, I should not have brought it up. I understand that you have no real attachment to any brand, you just happen to own all Ford products. Chrysler does not need to give up and die off...they need to produce products people want to buy and help fight the stigma that American cars have (rightly) earned but are now overcoming. Also, donÔÇÖt even start with the Toyota made in America shtick ok. By far more Fords and Chevys are made in the USA then Toyotas. The Big Three employ far more people. Chrysler still maintains several US plants building Minivans, Calibers, Trucks, and Sebring/Avenger in America. A great deal of the building is outsourced to Canada and Mexico but as stated this is because of the USÔÇÖs Union laws and the UAWÔÇÖs hardball with US manufacturers.
UAW/DCX rant-
I think it is funny how people talk about how American corporations are evil in using cheap labor in other countries to build their productsthen get into their Kia. No one here has really made that point, thats why I dont direct it at anyone. Foreign cars are built at an extreme cost advantage to American cars (that are built in the US). How can someone talk about American companies abusing employees when the people who build all these cars are paid a fraction of what a UAW employee makesand without any benefits? I mean, Im sure Kias are not built in sweat shops, but there is no way they are as well cared for as unionized labor here in the USA.
So American car makers have several big hurtles: Overcoming the larger costs of building their products he, the incredible perceived quality advantage of the competition, disadvantages in supply chain development and R&D, and the list goes on. I think Chrysler becoming private will help in the long run. Private equity firms have a bad reputation for picking out the profitable parts of a company and trashing the rest often at the expense of the overall organization. If the structure can remain the same and the costs can be brought down without lowering quality I think there is a future for Chrysler. Fuck the Germans. I truly believe that they caused more harm to us then we did to them. That may be contrary to what most of you have read and probably believe, but Chrysler was healthy and had money in the bank before the merge. They won out in this deal; I donÔÇÖt feel sorry at all for them.
@Brian
Why? Because I want to put out my thoughts on the subject? I donÔÇÖt think I got out of line, I said my piece. Obviously RJ has decided not to really take any of it for anything but I should have expected that. I just think people are passing judgment without really knowing their ass from a hole in the ground. No one here will matter anyway, but I canÔÇÖt help but think reading this will keep someone from trying and deciding FOR THEMSELVES. If anything makes me mad it is that possibility. But MM is hardly the crowd I need to be trolling for possible converts to The CorporationÔäó.

@ Derek
Thanks for brining GM into the conversation. An uneventful sidebar, even less meaningful then the main conversation, but entertaining to me in as small way. We are defending ÔÇÿourÔÇÖ companiesÔǪnot wellÔǪbut we are trying. At least you make it not seem so focused on Chrysler hate.

@ Andy
The Hemi campaign really bugs you doesnt it? Christ, get over it . Its just as obnoxious as Honda with VTEC. Everyone has something like it nowso what. So what if most engines are Hemi now. Chrysler owns the trade name HEMI and it garners respect from a large (and totally non-Asian :wink: ) segment of the market. If it doesnt get you to buy a carfine, but I dont see why it should get under your skin. Also, who doesnt recycle nameplates? If Asian companies had a rich automotive history they would be reusing names too. Why not bitch at Honda and tell them to rename the Civicafter all they have been using that tired shit since the beginning [/sarcasm] Generic designs.wow. Ok, so Chrysler is keeping some style points across the various lines. Jeep with the bar grills and round lights, Dodge with the rear window in the sedans and the taillights, Chrysler with the huge wings and the hoods.but reallyis any other company any better? Does BMW need to lose the Kidneys? That analogy might not work as their styling has radically changed in the past model year, but they still hold on to the past. I think that is largely your point, that Chrysler relies too much on the past. Maybe the 300c digs up some classic American styling and that is genericbut it was HUGE when it first dropped. So in my mind, though the trend did not last in a huge way, it made money and the cars still sell well. I re-read your earlier post, I agree that product is a major issue. I think reworking the lines will help. There is the new minivan dropping next year (and it is bomb as far as minivans go), the Challenger, and a new PT Cruiser coming in 09 I think. Doing something with powertrain in the Pacifica would help it out a bit and the first revision of the 300/Charger could be promising.
@RJ
Man, I donÔÇÖt need to get any flak from you about an unhealthy obsession ok? IÔÇÖve grown up around this stuff, and I still work with it almost every day. It paid for the house I came up in, itÔÇÖs put me through college, itÔÇÖs given my family a good name in our community and a business we can be proud of. I should stress the proud, but IÔÇÖm sure itÔÇÖs not need. Chrysler products have been good to me. Sentiment and nostalgia skipped my Father and my Uncle, but I got it all from my Grandfather. I wish I could know the ÔÇÿgood oleÔÇÖ daysÔÇÖ like he does (and not just about cars). Times are different now, the car buyer is different, the cars are different, hell the whole world is different. So none of that matters. I see the product every day, I see it come in to get serviced and fixed. I hear horror stories of lemons (I can really only think of 2, one was a buy back, the other was basically a drive train swap, but every now and again you have a minor problem) and I see people who have purchased cars from us for years and years and remember their 65 Chrysler Newport just as fondly as their 96 Sebring they traded last year. Sure there are quality issues, but they are everywhere, regardless of what name is on the building. Fit and finish is not an issue. Most reviews I have read in the past few years have said the quality of presentation was on par with imports (that statement sucksÔǪbut it was their choice of words). Reliability has grown with the technology and the new world engine promises to do quite a bit for longevity. The 1.8 also does pretty well in the kinda porky Caliber for fuel economy, 26 city 34 highway I think (5-speed). So itÔÇÖs not all doom and gloom. IÔÇÖm obviously sentimental and I donÔÇÖt want the company to go under for that, but I honestly believe the products are good and serve people well. I canÔÇÖt expect to change your opinion, and only time will tell who is right. But I think it would be sad for another American company to disappear into the shadows of history. We are losing all our industry here, we are a service economy, and I think that can only hurt us in the long run.

And with that, I am done. I hope I did not offend anyone, as that was not my objective in any of the directed portions. I just want to give you something to think about as you all have done for me. I am frustrated and worried as loosing this company to the history books could change my life. IÔÇÖm not saying you should stop discussing or stating your opinion, so please continue and help me better understand. Nick, Anne, and I were talking about putting a double-din Pioneer Navigation radio in AnneÔÇÖs 99 Chrysler LHS today. She was just kinda looking around the car as Nick and I were talking about how to modify the dash to fit (Chryslers are din.5 size not 2din) and she says ÔÇ£I really like this car.ÔÇØ ItÔÇÖs the customers that make me want this company to exist, people like me who enjoy these cars and cars in general.

[WRXtranceformed]

Holy sweet Jesus. Jeff could you please post some cliffs notes??

[D_Eclipse9916]

Jeff dont get so butthurt about RJ, he is brutally honest and says some stuff thatll piss off anyone, but thats because he is honest. Its okay, to me, because he will admit it about his own shit and he hates on all. Good lord in 2 years I have seen RJ once say "that gsx was cool or something like that" and the rest have been eclipses suck, they are gonna break down.


I will be honest, nothing, in the dodge, or chrysler brand really excites the hell outta me. 300C, cool but incredibly shitty interior and visibility, the srt-8, the best of their line, cool but still....id rather have something else. Dodge viper, still meh compared to the c6 z06. The caliber and sebring I wouldnt drive if it was given to me. Thats my own opinion, and people will say the same about a dsm, but I know a few more people sharing my opinion and thats why Chrysler is going down the toilet.

GM is actually trying to turn themselves around. The corvette is still an amazing piece of engineering despite using leaf springs and what else would be considered outdated technology. But it continues to blow away at the price range and even way above its price range. The regular corvette still has an amazing engine as are all ls engines, and can get over 30mpg on the highway. It also has a name, corvette which instills loyalty in which corvette owners of present havent been betrayed in a long time. They are doing a smart thing trying to stick the ls motors in as many cars as possible. In fact I want a vehicle with that type of engine, it is reliable, has hellacious power, and can be very good in terms of gas mileage and weight. Thats what attracts me to the pontiac g8 with the l98, and they are working on the interior quality issues. Way to go, although they do still have many inferior vehicles, GM can still easily pull itself out.

Ford is Ford. I cant explain it, but the lower mustangs are junk, but will always sell well. My girlfriend, knows how much the mustangs suck in quality, gas mileage, and shit like that, but guess what? She still wants one. Doesnt care...what can instill this? I dont know, but damn Ford has brand loyalty. Cheap, perform decent and I still beleive will be around for a long while, but not turning profits for at least a little while.

Chrysler has no loyalty except for a few, has no iconic car that actually sells in enough volume, and is falling behind the times like they did in the mid 80s, and this time the government wont save them. Unless they pull a miracle out of their ass, I dont see them selling enough of their hotcakes sebrings and 300c to pull them out of the shithole.

[.RJ]

Fack y0 DSM! :lol:

[Jeff]

sorry...I asked Aaron if he thought big posts were tacky...lol. Its 3 pages single spaced in word, I could have turned it in as a paper.

Cliffs Notes version-

-RJ is gay
-UAW Sucks
-Germans suck
-imported autos are made at a steep cost advantage to domestically manufactured autos
-RJ is gay :wink:
-Andy hates the Hemi, but its no different then stamping VTEC on everything... its a marketing name for a technology that has resonance with the target audience.
-Brand identity is not 'generic styling'
-Chad does not like American cars but owns nothing but Fords....just because :wink: (Mazda = Ford owned of course, guilt by association)
-Derek is the D-dogg fo life...repping GM to the max y0!
-Brian needs to pick me up a box of always
-Chrysler will survive, and things will get better
-I <3 Chrysler, legitimately, and I think the products really are good.
-Customers are what really matter, there are people who like these cars and those are the people I enjoy serving.

Thats kinda the rough version, much like school I expect you to read the whole thing, use these only to guide your comprehension.

[Jeff]

oh, I got beat to the post...RJ and DSMs are gay

[Andy]

I feel where you're coming from, Jeff. When I dog Chrysler, it's about their product and not anything personally charged towards you.

However, your impassioned argument had more to do with feelings, and equivocations then numbers. Hopefully Chrysler will try to pull some good product out of their ass instead of relying on loyal customers to continue to swallow their stuff.

I get the feeling you think I'm anti-domestic and will only buy Japanese (not asian) cars. It's true that I currently only own Japanese cars but it has nothing to do with my country of origin and everything to do with the history of making reliable cars which I can't imagine most folks being able to dispute.

I love German car looks, style, interiors, power/handling. I don't however own one because electricity owns me and apparently, it owns ze germans as well.

However, I would buy the CTS-V, Solstice/Sky (almost did if Joan hadn't killed it), new Mustang GT, Cobalt SS/Ion Redline, Corvette, F-series, and the GMT9000's but I couldn't think of a single realistic(not Viper) purchase from Dodge/Chrysler. Everytime I get in my friend's Charger SRT8, I keep thinking, "Why isn't this drivetrain in something smaller w/ a manual?"

Also, with regard to your keeping with lineage statement, the modern Charger shares no DNA with the old Charger. In fact, my father-in-law who grew up loving Mopar and had a Charger w/a Hemi 427 was terribly confused as to why a four door sedan was called a Charger.