Buying a car for college?

[ViPER1313]

A civic hatch nicely fits 4 passengers, and also meets every number/comment I stated above.

So you think that a nice Civic hatchback, with a GSR motor, that can run 13s, can be had for ~$6500 and will be reliable, handle well, and still get 40mpg? It doesnÔÇÖt work like that. First off, even a stock GSR only gets 25 mpg city/31 mpg highway. Even with the weight reduction from the Civic shell, 40mpg is a little optimistic. Secondly, engine swaps are no easy matter even for a Civic, and can run way more than 3g if you want it done correctly. Lastly, 13s??? Come on, it's a Civic, and you will either have to gut the interior of the car or build the engine to get 13s, considering a stock GSR did the quarter in 15.6. Also, any building of the engine dips further into fuel economy. While a GSR might get 30+mpg on the highway, I think as a daily driver ~25mpg for the Civic would be normal, and if you drive it like an ass, I wouldn't expect more than around 20-22mpg.

Whatever - there is just no way I could ever see myself burning so much money on a Civic - it's meant to be a commuter car, not a sports sedan. I can respect someone buying a Civic if they want a stock reliable car to get from point A to point B. If you want a Civic, just get the SI, cause I can see no point trying to create a sports car out of a mid 90s hatch.

[Mike]

I own one... You're telling me I'm wrong? The only reasoning that you're showing me that "it's a Civic, it can't do that."

[ScottyB]

the E30 or E36 choice would definitely be up there if it was my pick. i also like any car with the VR6 engine....although i dont know how good vdub reliability is besides the engine.

[ViPER1313]

I own one... You're telling me I'm wrong?

Your LS has a lower 5th gear ratio than a GSR (0.714 vs. 0.787), a lower final drive (4.266 vs. 4.400), lacks VTEC, is redlined at 7000rpm vs. 8100, and makes 142hp vs. 170 for the GSR - all of which hurt fuel economy for the GSR vs. your car.

Do you seriously get 40mpg? How do you drive your car? Cause if you get a serious 40mpg in all round driving than I will take back everything I have said. I know my car is supposed to get 20mpg city/28 highway, but when I drive it like an asshole I get about 17mpg . In all seriousness, I just don't see what the big deal with fuel economy and efficiency is, because it takes a lot of driving to make up for the extra cash you had to spend for the "efficient" car.

[Mike]

You're right, you're right.. I exaggerated a bit. Yes, I do in fact get 40+ mpg on the highway, but given the different final drive and 5th gear my car with a GS-R motor might only get 37.5 or so. Redline has nothing at all to do with gas mileage, and VTEC only is a factor when you drive like a retard, something that has no place on the street anyway.

The big deal about fuel economy? Gas costs money, money I'd rather put towards other things.
12k miles per year / 35mpg = 342g of gas consumed x $1.70/g = $581
12k miles per year / 20mpg = 600g of gas consumed x $1.70/g = $1020
There is $450 right there.

And THEN we take in to consideration the money saved on tires (maybe $300/set) and insurance (mine is $600/yr for full coverage) and I think it is quite obvious why a swapped civic hatch makes a great college car.

Don't worry, I'm not totally blind to the rice (getting an E36 M3 or G35 after graduation this year), I love all things that go, I just feel that I've made a great decision and I'd like to see others open up their minds a bit.

[Mike]

Original author-
Have you considered a GS-R? More usable room since it is a hatch and they have "torque."

[RedNight351]

All great ideas thanks...

BUt how about this...

1998 Ford Contour SVT

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.stuff.to/svtspecs.php">http://www.stuff.to/svtspecs.php</a><!-- m -->

That websites has engine etc specs....

I found one of those in my price range

[Mike]

Very nice car indeed, one of few Fords that I'd drive

Good power, lots of space, and pretty good looking IMO.

[ViPER1313]

All great ideas thanks...

BUt how about this...

1998 Ford Contour SVT

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.stuff.to/svtspecs.php">http://www.stuff.to/svtspecs.php</a><!-- m -->

That websites has engine etc specs....

I found one of those in my price range

My uncle used to own one - decently fast (can chirp the tires in second), handles great, and decently rare now as well. Also, as an added perk, Ford invites SVT owners to race their cars once a year (I forget where, and I don't know if this is transferable from one owner to the next.) My uncle's car was reliable, but my neighbors Contour SVT had the clutch go out at 60k miles (not a huge deal IMO, but he made a huge stink about it and sold the car shortly afterwards...) Good choice IMO.

[KPWSerpiente]

If you want max bang for your small import buck why not pick up an older ‘90/’91 Eagle Talon TSI AWD or an Eclipse? The turbos can easily be bumped from 7 to about 11psi

Sorry for jumping on this late...I didn't realize a discussion about whether or not a Civic SI would make a good daily driver would turn into such an arguement.

I actually started to write up a response to this thread when it was first put up with my recomendation for a 90-94 AWD Eclipse/Talon/Laser, but they don't really meet his requirement of being able to fit people in the back, and some will argue about reliability (mostly those who buy a decade old car with 150,000 miles on it and then proceed to beat the crap out of it) Besides, once he went turbo + AWD he would have sold the mustang to feed his boost addiction.

And just to throw it out for you....stock boost levels on a 1st gen already around 11 psi, the stock turbocharger on manual cars (14b) has gotten two into the 11's and dozens into the 12's. But most upgrade to something larger before maxing it out.

I would think a 2.5 RS would be an excellent choice, holds many people with ease, plenty of cargo space, AWD for driving around here in the snow, and it will get good gas mileage. I just don't know where you'll be able to buy one around here.

-T

[.RJ]

I have also been in a 94 Prelude VTEC, and while it was fast it wasnÔÇÖt anything extraordinary. It had such go-cart handling that it understeered off the road and hit a guardrail

No, its not extraordinary... and at that price, you wont find anything. But they are fun to drive and can be had for under $5K for a car in good condition... And you cant blame a car's result into a guardrail on anything other than that nut loose behind the wheel.

A BMW would also be a nice choice, although I would like to get an old 80ÔÇÖs12cyl 750IL....

Money pit The E30/E36's are easy to work on and cheap to maintain. If you like big cars, then the E34 525/535 are good cars, but will require a bit more attention.

If you want a Civic, just get the SI, cause I can see no point trying to create a sports car out of a mid 90s hatch.

A hatch will be faster than the Si, cheaper to build (or buy) and cheaper to own. No one was claiming it will walk all over a ferrari. Yes its still a civic and not a sports car, but the 92-95/94-01 civic/integra platform is a pretty damn good one.

although i dont know how good vdub reliability is besides the engine.

Run away....

I would think a 2.5 RS.... I just don't know where you'll be able to buy one around here.

I've seen them go for around $8500 in good shape. They are very very reliable and will run for damn near forever. If you wanted one, look for a '99 or newer. Autotrader, and <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.nasioc.com">www.nasioc.com</a><!-- w --> .

[Chris]

I know I'm late on this discussion, but in that price range I would def. look for the 1999 or newer 2.5 RS or a 94-96 prelude VTEC. GSR's are a close 3rd.

[Sijray21]

I know I'm late on this discussion, but in that price range I would def. look for the 1999 or newer 2.5 RS or a 94-96 prelude VTEC. GSR's are a close 3rd.

I agree with this. I would place the GSR's a little higher on the list. It sounds like you want to simply buy a daily driver as opposed to do a conversion such as a swap. The swap would save you a lot of money in the long run. Correct me if i'm wrong though. If you can find a GSR with somewhat low mileage in your price range, i would look into that over the Si. You'll be happier with the power, overall feel, and the seats. Atleast that's what i like about the GSR over my car, the Si. If i could go back when i was searching for a car before my senior year in HS, i would've looked a little more carefully. I probably would've just not bought a car, inherited my mom's '86 Gti and built that car up. In fact, if you're willing to, those vdubs are great, you can get them for about $1K, then with the extra money you can replace the suspension, the engine, and almost anything else you wanted to do. In addition to that you can save a TON of money on insurance. I'd also like to add that this car weigh's in at about 2300 lbs, over estimating the weight .

[.RJ]

I know I'm late on this discussion, but in that price range I would def. look for the 1999 or newer 2.5 RS or a 94-96 prelude VTEC. GSR's are a close 3rd.

I'd stay away from the Preludes of that vintage if you plan on any hard use (track, autox) for it...

There were very very few VTEC models sold in 94-96 - and engine rebuilds are expensive if you ever need one (let alone finding a machine shop to touch a FRM block.... ) and gearboxes are near impossible to find if you ever explode one.

A 97-98 prelude can be had for around $10K (maybe less, been a while since i looked) which would be a better choice.

[Dave]

I'll chime in, though a lot of my recommendations are already posted.
-S14 240SX: can be had very cheap ($2k or less), RWD, fun to drive, loads of room for improvement, easy to work on.
-S15 240SX: I've got less experience with these, though should be basically the same, a little better looking, but also a bit more expensive. Also, kinda chunky.
-AWD DSM: Boost AND all wheel drive. Sounds good to me. Plenty of room for mods on these as well, though I've also heard they are quite reliable as a DD.
-Civic Hatch: torqueless wonder (just like almost every other civic known to man) but swaps are incredibly easy and cheap, parts are everywhere, and you can get one for next to nothing. Not to mention Honda reliability and easy to work on.
-mkIII supra: though I wouldn't recommend following my path unless you have a lot of time and money to spare, you can get these for wicked cheap. They aren't too hard to work on, and are fairly reliable. Turbos have loads of potential in them, and they look sexy as hell. It is a boat though, and definitely doesn't handle like a go-kart.
-2.5 RS: I know next to nothing about Scoobies, but its a good lookin car, fun to drive, and seems to have some decent potential to be MORE fun to drive

From my own experience, I wouldn't recommend the mkIII from these choices. Also remember, that they are all very cheap, so that leaves you a lot of room to replace stuff, modify, etc. I also must add that I am looking into the S14, DSM, and hatch myself to replace my mkIII when somebody buys it.

[G.Irish]

Typically when someone asks this kind of question the first thing I want to know is what are their goals with the car. I think I have pretty good idea of what you want so here are some of my pics

Front Wheel Drive

Civic Hatchback with B18C, B20VTEC, B16A (or K20A2 =P)
The hatch idea has several advantages such as low insurance, lots of new and used aftermarket, and good gas mileage. Cost wise you'd make out pretty well there. You may not be so into Civics but there is a lot you can do with the car for cheap and still have a practical car. Through the proper channels, you can probably get an EK Civic hatchback for around or under $3k. You'll have to do some suspension work to get the Civic to handle competently though.

Integra GS-R
The prices on GS-R's are coming way down and in just about every category it is better than the Civic Si. More power, more torque, stiffer chassis, better steering ratio, better suspension, better seats, bigger brakes, etc. The major downside to the GS-R is that it has higher insurance because its a theft target. For me the GS-R is cool because the stock handling is good enough that I didn't feel the need to modify it until I was starting to get to an advanced level with my driving.

Rear Wheel Drive

Camaro/Firebird
Easily one of the best bangs for the buck on the market. The insurance is a bit higher on them and they aren't so practical on seat room but they don't have horrible gas mileage if you're a conservative driver. That said, almost no one with an F-Body is a conservative driver. The other downside of the F-Body is that since it is a large vehicle it is not so nimble but you already knew that.

Nissan 240SX
The 240 is still a pretty cheap car to get a hold of and has excellent handling and decent gas mileage. If you wanna pull a swap with it you can have a JDM front clip with the turbo motor (SR20DET) for $2000 which is hard to beat. The market for 240's has recently heated up because of drifting but prices still aren't bad. Expect to pay between $1500-$3500 for an S13 and up to about $10K for an S14.

FC Mazda RX-7 (2nd Gen)
Jack knows a lot more about this car than I do but right now they are a underrated performance buy. The naturally aspirated 2nd Gen has 170 hp and the Turbo II has 214 (correct me if I'm wrong Jack). Unfortunately the rotaries are not known for their gas mileage but you could pick one up for cheap.

E30 BMW 325
The E30 325 is a fairly quick car that is very plentiful and has a lot of parts for it. While it is not as fast as some of the other choices it would still be a very practical and fun car to own. Ask Chan, Nick, or Sean, they'll tell you its a pretty fun reliable car to own. Just make sure you don't get a beat ass rust bucket.

E36 BMW 325
The E36 is heavier than the E30 but it is still pretty fun and ostensibly handles as well or better. The big advantage of the E36 is that it has a lot more amenities than the E30 did.

All Wheel Drive

Impreza 2.5RS (98-2001)
The 2.5 is a fun little car that is both practical and reliable. While it is probably one of the slower cars of the group it is obviously great in the wet. There are no major issues with the car and the only thing I would add is maybe some shocks/springs and a rear swaybar (oh and an exhaust so I can hear the flat 4 burble).

Eclipse/Laser/Talon (Turbo AWD)
The turbo Diamond Stars are not the best on stock handling or weight but they have big power potential and you can get the handling where you want it to be fairly easily. If you want a mean drag car that can get around in the snow this would be a better choice than the Scooby. The Scooby has the handling advantage but unless you swap in a WRX engine the Scooby can't hang.

If you're even remotely considering taking the car out on track, here's my top choices for a street/track car. Not to say the other cars aren't good but these cars are the most ready to go out of the box.

1. 240SX
2. E30 325
3. Integra GS-R (tie)
3. E36 325 (tie)

For street/track/drag:

1. 240SX w/swap
2. Eclipse/Laser/Talon
3. Camaro/Firebird
4. Mustang
5. Civic Hatchback w/swap[/list][/list]

[G.Irish]

All great ideas thanks...

BUt how about this...

1998 Ford Contour SVT

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.stuff.to/svtspecs.php">http://www.stuff.to/svtspecs.php</a><!-- m -->

That websites has engine etc specs....

I found one of those in my price range

My uncle used to own one - decently fast (can chirp the tires in second), handles great, and decently rare now as well. Also, as an added perk, Ford invites SVT owners to race their cars once a year (I forget where, and I don't know if this is transferable from one owner to the next.) My uncle's car was reliable, but my neighbors Contour SVT had the clutch go out at 60k miles (not a huge deal IMO, but he made a huge stink about it and sold the car shortly afterwards...) Good choice IMO.

I looked at the SVT Contour awhile ago and on paper its a pretty good car. That particular chassis was lauded at the time to be one of the best that Ford ever made and was the basis of the British Touring Car Championship winning Mondeos in 2001.

The problems you may have are a weak aftermarket and a relatively chincy car overall. I guess I've been spoiled by Bimmers and Hondas but I didn't find the Contour to be put togther particularly well. Performance wise it doesn't give up a whole lot to some of the other cars mentioned but I'd have to say that if you're looking for a 4 door the 325 is a better choice and if you're going to go FWD I'd say the GS-R is a better choice. Now if you want 4 doors and FWD then the Contour is your ticket. Really, stock for stock I can't knock the Contour.

If you plan to be driving the car hard at autocrosses and open tracking it then I'd probably go for one of the more proven commodities. If not, then I'd say have at it.

[JackoliciousLegs]

Hatchcraps and understeer:

If he understeerd into a guard rail, he's a good driver. Tell him he needs driver's ed.

My GSR's gas mileage:

30+ all the time.

As far as FCs go, if you have 9000 to blow on a car, you can't go wrong. I fit just as much in my FC as I did in my GSR, but I don't have to cart people around because "I only have two seats... sorry :wink: " I get like 15-23MPG and i have to put 93 octane in.

The only reason I bought this car is because I got an amazing deal on it. 90 TII with 35k on a mazda reman. engine (200hp btw Gerald, 196 Tq) for 2000. That's everything, car tax, tags, registration. This is the first car I have that I truly love everything about. I could care less about the gas mileage because of the price I paid for it. The car does great in snow and has been nothing but reliable for like 8 months now. I don't drive it hard... in fact, REED might tell you I drive slowly

My advice: Compile a list of cars you're interested in and join all their respective forums. Keep an eye on all the for sale sections and watch cars.com and autotrader. If you have a car to drive now, which you do, take your time and look for something you will really love. The worst mistake you can make (I made it) is to settle for something. After being unsatisfied with a couple cars, I realized all I needed to do is wait for something good to come along. I got lucky, and if you're diligent about it, you will get lucky too.

[G.Irish]

My advice: Compile a list of cars you're interested in and join all their respective forums. Keep an eye on all the for sale sections and watch cars.com and autotrader. If you have a car to drive now, which you do, take your time and look for something you will really love. The worst mistake you can make (I made it) is to settle for something. After being unsatisfied with a couple cars, I realized all I needed to do is wait for something good to come along. I got lucky, and if you're diligent about it, you will get lucky too.

My advice too: Test drive as many of the cars you are interested in as possible. I found that some of the cars that I like on paper were not really what I liked in character. Even if you make the same decision you thought you would've made anyway if you've test driven everything you'll have that much less doubt in your decision.

[Kaan]

not be a dick, but my CRX carries ALOT of shit for a hatch back... though hatchbacks have more... and if all he had was 12s in it, he waisted space anyway! i had all my track shit and 4 tires in my car! ;-) i'll defend my little peice of shit till the day i die... or till i kill it!