03-02-2004, 11:27 PM
KPWSerpiente Wrote:Alright. We'll do this in reverse.
My entire point, is that from a strictly performance (ANY KIND, drag, autox, rally, road, or ) point of view, any automobile made by Honda is not at the top of the list.
I'm glad we all agree the S2000 is a nice car. Looks good, rides well, and makes good power for such a small engine. But it does this by revving high and is therefore difficult to make more powerful without tearing apart the engine. When they said Johny Tran had 100 grand under the hood of his Fast and Furious S2000.....I believed them!
So we won't drag race it. So how about Rallying, autoxing, or roadracing?
For the price, and you already mentioned this, you can own an Evo8 or STi. These cars will out accelerate, out brake, out skidpad, out everything the S2000 for the reasons you already mentioned. They'll also carry more people...so we won't put the S2000 at the top of our list for any kind of these kinds of racing.
Ahh, the NSX. Yes it is time for Honda to step it up in that department. We won't even pretend it is a drag racing car.
So what about the rest? Like I brought up, for the money you could own a Viper. But you have problems with power and think comfort is more important than performance, so we'll forget about it. I'm gald you mentioned the Z06. Way less cost than an NSX, way more performance. We both agree the NSX needs to be replaced or revamped, and until then it won't be a first choice.
Hopefully you've stuck with me. These two top of the line street cars built by Honda are outperformed by cars from other makes that cost the same, or much less.
So what do we talk about now? Honda's wins in the world of motorsports? Impressive yes. Relevent to my point that Honda does not currently make a performance car that I would want to buy? NO!
List all of the trophies you want. It does not change the fact that they don't make a performance car you can buy, and then take to the track (or off road) and outperform cars that cost the same or less.
Keep this going, someone prove me wrong.
-T
If you're talking about autocrossing again, Honda has wins there too. Look at the results for the last few years and the Type-R has dominated G-Stock/B-Stock and the S2000 has taken over B-Stock. In STS the lowly 88-91 Si has taken the crown from the Subaru 2.5RS.
Out on track the only cars for the same money or less that are going to beat the S2000 are the Evo, STi, and maybe the Z track model, depending on the course configuration. Compared against other roadsters its a wash.
Rallying? Well there are only two companies that make rally-esque cars in the United States can you guess what they are? No question there.
With the Viper I have no problems with power, but if you're going to spend big money on a supercar it should be designed properly. I don't want to have to contort my foot in ungodly ways to heel toe, I don't want to have problems figuring out where the front of the car is, and I don't want to get burned while inside the car. I prefer a car that is designed as a total experience rather than a huge honking truck engine with something built around it as an afterthought. The point I was trying to make is that for me a sports car should have the right balance of elements to make it an enjoyable driving experience. Now don't get me wrong, if we're talking new cars I would buy a Viper before I bought an NSX. Used I would buy an early NSX over a first gen Viper.
Really right now there is nothing that matches the prodigious performance of the the STi and Evo for the price. No disputing that. But saying there is nothing Honda makes that can outperform cars that cost the same or less is out and out false.
And if you have ever gone out to the track you'd realize that those tenths of a second one car has over another on paper make little difference at an open track event because of the differences in driver skill. I've rolled Vettes, M3's, Camaros, and several other cars that are faster on paper because they had lesser drivers. When you step up the pace in groups 3 and 4 you're pretty much not going to catch anything faster but even then in some sections of the track I can keep up with or gain on faster cars. So what's the point? Drive what you like. Drive whatever car suits your needs best and gives you the best driving experience. If Hondas don't float your boat, fine. Buy an Evo, buy a Mustang, buy an Elise. Thats what choice is for.