Hopefully this is allowed

[Ole]

You'll never hear me complain once about our president if I don't vote. Don't give me that played out rhetoric. I voted against George Bush every single fucking time he got elected and it didn't do a damn bit of good. There are way too many retards in America that are easily swayed by a few minutes they spend each day listening to the media and the hour and a half they spend each Sunday in church.

Note that this isn't a stab at religion, I'm an extremely spiritual person believe it or not... but I have no faith in American's ability to judge what's proper for our future and I don't think we're going to be in any better of a situation if either one of those faggots gets elected to office.

I think the "played out rhetoric" is your own interpretation. You will get little to no respect from many (if that means anything to you) if you do bitch about the process yet don't do anything about it.

Interesting that you call people that vote retards yet find it necessary to use so many colorful words to try getting your point across.

So far there has been some good discussion, less a few.

Ironically, this indicates a fundamental misunderstanding of some of the most basic tenants of the democratic system, and I regret that you feel that way. If my studied and weighed disagreement nets me "no respect from many," or you, then so be it. I would ask, however, that you not purport to hold our system, a system based on choice, in the highest regard, yet jump to base, jingoistic rhetoric when somebody doesn't play the way you want.

It is disappointing that you jump to tired cliches when people are unwilling to snap to party lines for your "discussion." And they are tired. I have heard the "don't vote, don't bitch" remark at hundred-dollar-plate academic dinners, from whatever loony toons that set up a table in front of them DMV, republican and democratic households alike, and every bandwagoneer that finds it easier to debase and oversimplify the system to satisfy the requirements of a convenient criticism. Would I be a better citizen if I jumped into rank and file, pretended to be an expert on things that I'm realistically clueless about, and demanded action on whatever I felt wasn't Just?

Some people in this discussion, whom you have conveniently decided to label as poor participants, have taken a small amount of time to air their greivances. They have declared their unwillingness cast a vote within your narrow contraints, so they must not be worthy of your respect. That's interesting. Maybe you will cast a vote, but I haevn't actually seen you participate in the discussion about it, aside from being quick-on-the-trgigger to cry shame. If you want to talk about democracy, then you're going to have to talk about all of it... not just your silly politicians.

Where were you when we were writing our representatives to repeal the remedial civil penalties levied against Virginia drivers? Where is our thread about the campaign for governor? Congress? The Supreme Court's review of the second amendment? Regional politics? Or is it easier to talk about the damn presidential campaign and forget that there's more to democracy?

And we haven't even touched on the economics of the popular vote. Would you rather not approach the implications that has? Have you concerned yourself rational irrationality? Do you REALLY think you know what you need to know to come to an informed decisions about international economics? Foreign policy? Health care? Infrastructure? Defense spending? Accounting? Accountability? Special interest legislation? Come the heck on. I'm not going to sit here and spoon feed you the arguments against the popular election - but before you snap to criticism, you need to know that there are very valid arguments against the current execution of the system, and perhaps educate yourself on some of them. Then pick a side.

And what about the technical execution of the system? The huge problems with the voting machines, the median voter model, and, as Rex mentioned, the problems with accountability of a politicans words?

Perhaps we are participants in our system of choice. There is more than one way to skin a cat, after all, and I prefer to approach different issues. I don't care for the media frenzy, or the ignorance of most political discussion. No. I would rather discuss why the system is the way it is, and what we can do about increasing it's effectiveness. I'm sorry if that doesn't hoist your flag, but please acknowledge that it is not ignorance, nor is it deserved of your critical defense mechanism.

Good argument! I still don't want to hear you bitch about the individual when you chose to not vote. If you don't like the candidates, what have you done to further the recognition of an individual you do approve of? I have worked for quite a few candidates for office of State Representative and Governor when I wanted that individual in office. I have donated time and money to candidates so they may get their message out to those that will listen and participate.

FYI: I probably write my representatives more often than you could imagine. Items like the Virginia Civil Penalty assessed to certain infractions that you mentioned, Medicare/Tricare payment cuts those that have sacrificed the most serving in our military and many, many more. I have met personally with Tom Davis, Mark Warner, Nancy Pelosi and many other political leaders regarding many issues from funding for medical research to transportation issues. I choose to participate.

As for my non-participation in the other topics you listed, I have never seen these discussed. If you are asking where my topic about these is, I would be more than happy to start them if no-one else will.