Preventing school shootings

[JackoliciousLegs]

Ryan, the issue with what NY does is that it only has stricter laws about concealed weapons. People can still get them with relative ease. What I'm asking is why they're there at all.

Its just like every other political issue, theres no solution to any problem, no matter how you address it.

<terry> don't bring that weak ass shit up in this humpty bumpty!!!</terry>

Rex, guns are weapons. They're not like knives that can be used to open boxes. They're not like bombs that can be used to clear rubble. They are weapons with the sole purpose of inflicting harm. Whether or not that harm is in self defense or for any justified means is another issue.

Now that that's out of the way, I'm not suggesting that we disregard the constitution. I was simply asking theoretically, why we need guns today? I know that we're granted that right. I know why we were granted it. I'm just asking, that aside, why we need it now. Don't think that I want some sort of state controlled mess. You know I'm not batshit crazy. I'm just liberal. Interestingly enough, when I line my views up people in other first world countries, I line up more with moderates. I'm just very liberal when the frame of reference is the current US political system.

Now Rex, your last issue is the most pertinent. VT was a tragedy. Psychopaths indeed have no regard for the law. I know. I started a different thread to talk about gun control in general. I just had to wonder what it'd take to have the US revisit its gun control policy.

On a tangent, I like how you mentioned freedom of religion. Maybe, after this thread fizzles, I'll start that one up...

I'm all for gun control. I see little reason to have a gun thats not locked up when not in use. But I like my guns, and screw anyone who wants to take them away from me.

Good for you. Enjoy your guns. Go hunting. Target shooting. Caged quail hunting. Whatever strikes your fancy. But at least you admitted that you agree with gun control and that they should be locked up. Not in your pocket.

G, the best rebuttal by far, and exactly what I was hoping to get. So, playing devil's advocate, I'm now in agreement with you. I think we should be allowed to have guns because people should never cede total power to their government. However, in today's modern age, do you think that my lousy .22 and my glock will do anything against the military? Will it save me from a bunker buster? Will it save me against a tank? How about an F-22? A gun is such a primitive weapon today that it's almost laughable that we'd consider it a defense against the US government should it turn hostile.

You mentioned prohibition and I think you're right about it. We'd stir up a shitstorm if we tried to ban guns. It wouldn't happen.

You sort of followed the same path at the end as Rex saying that this is a tragedy and completely unavoidable. Shit happens. It does and I understand. Again though, as above, what needs to happen before we revisit our gun control policy.

Rather than trying to outlaw guns maybe we should spend more time on the cultural factors that lead to violence in this country.

I agree 100%.

Tighter laws do not prevent determined individuals from success, they only serve to restrict the rights of those who actually choose to follow the rules.

Good point, and I agree. So... how do we stop this from happening? What's the root of the problem? Apathy? (see this) Miseducation? Lack thereof? My question from above was, what can we do to make it harder for crazies to not get their hands on a handgun?

I think those in society that desire to own a firearm should be able to, after much more extensive background checks and exams.

Agreed. I'll stay away from your church and state stuff. (again, save it for later) I think that when you mentioned failed parenting, I agree 100%.

We can't reform the govt but we sure can reform laws. We can try to tighten gun laws. We can set up some sort of safety education. We can reduce apathy by encouraging people to participate more actively in the political system. I don't know about you, but my political fervor arose after I left public K-12.

even if I do get in a vicious fight in London and I get my ass kicked, the damage is contained to what people can do with their own hands.

such as kill you?

Yup. They can kill me. But I can at least have a fair chance to look them in the eyes before I go.

I read this thread and decided it was time to clean my gunS, thanks Jack, I had forgotten about them.

You are hilarious :-)

its just one of those things we have to live with in our society. Its a shame that some people are evil...once again, something we must live with. I just wish there had been someone with a concealed carry permit and a level head in that first classroom/dorm...That is the only practical way this would have been stopped.

I would like to avoid having to carry a gun to feel safe (as I mentioned above). I'm looking for other ideas. People are going to do bad things. They can run people over, shoot them... I mean, get creative. How do we avoid it...

I'm just going to throw this out there for the sake of discussion and see if anyone chooses to respond to it.... The root of most of middle-class America's social issues are due to a two working parent household.

I love you. Thank you. G brought up excellent rebuttals later though. Still, I think parental apathy is a HUGE problem in our society.

having tighter gun laws and making it more difficult to obtain guns wont really stop pyschopaths that want to kill people. sure, it might weed out some of the borderline crazies, but it also limits those with legitimate reasons and responsible gun owners which is probably like 99% of them.

What do the other 99% of them do? Scott mentioned that we drive cars fast and waste gas. imo, that hardly equates with practicing to use a gun in a situation like VT's.

Instead of trying to regulate each and everything thing EVERYONE does it would be better to teach people how to spot troubled individuals. So many students have come out to say he was a loaner, didn't talk, etc. Maybe had someone reported this to the proper person (spend the money there) they could have talked to him and gotten him help.

Wow... for once... I (hesitate to say this) agree with you. (eww... I feel gross. j/k :-) ) See apathy above.


Ok, sorry it took me so long to respond to all of this. Either way, I think we're making progress. There's a lot of consent around stricter gun control laws (not 100%) but there is damn near an agreement on more social reform. Whether that be classroom education, or a call to end apathy among parents, teachers, classmates, etc. We could not have stopped this guy... except if someone had taken that guy's writings directly to the school and/or police. People probably didn't want to offend him. IMO, that writing goes WAY beyond creative license and delves deep into the world of the insane and dangerously masochistic.