04-17-2007, 08:40 PM
The other thread should be limited to details relating to the VT incident so I started this one as a *friendly* discussion of what we should do as a nation to prevent this from happening again.
It seems like after Columbine, not much around the US has changed. I'm sure most of you can guess what I think about guns in general, let alone guns without serious background/psychological checks. In my opinion, your opinions can fall into one of two categories because of basic human nature. Either you feel that we should all be armed, or that no one at all should carry guns.
In the first case, the defense would be, "Jack, if anyone in those classrooms had been packing, that shooting spree would've been over *much* sooner." Indeed, if a well trained shooter were in the classroom with a concealed weapon, they would've had a chance to end the spree. The downside to that is so plainly obvious, I barely feel that I have to state it. I should not have to feel obligated to carry a gun in order to feel safe when going to class. Full stop.
In the second case, the killer wouldn't have been able to walk into a walmart and buy a gun. The counter argument is, "Jack, you'll inevitably create a black market for guns and the rate of violent incidents will go up." I guess the rebuttal is two-fold. If I'm in London and I get in a fight, I could expect to get beaten to a pulp. I would *never* expect someone to pull out a gun and shoot me. I witnessed a fight between some gang members and some marines in Chicago and I was genuinely worried for *my* safety because of the possibility of a gun being in one of their possessions. The point of this is that, even if there's a black market for guns, it would keep most crazy nerds with death wishes away from them. You have to really try in most 1st world places to acquire a firearm. The second part of that is, even if I do get in a vicious fight in London and I get my ass kicked, the damage is contained to what people can do with their own hands. It adds a personal element to killing. You don't even have to look someone in the face to kill them with a gun.
Alright, now what if you're in between. Strict gun control, or just letting people be their own moral compasses and hope that this doesn't happen. Obviously, that's not working. It's not because of video games. It's not because we're the only country with guns (we're not). We've just proven to ourselves that our citizens are not responsible enough to own them. If we haven't proven that, we've at least proven that we need MUCH stronger gun control. A kid that produced those plays shouldn't be let near anything much more dangerous than a plastic spoon.
I sometimes strongly question a lot of our country's current motives for maintaining several beliefs that seem very antiquated. This isn't the only one. Other's include the idea that this is a Christian nation (<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html">http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html</a><!-- m -->). That's another story... I'm about to go off on a tangent. Either way, when we founded this country, we needed guns. Any day, the Brits could've come charging our shores and we would've needed guns to defend our families. Any day, banditos could've raided our settlements and taken our money and food. We could've been attacked by Indians. The list goes on. Today, we use guns for sport. We shoot at targets. Even better, we shoot at deer and other wildlife... and not to eat it (some do... I know... but do you really need to get a hard on before you eat?). My favorite is, we shoot at fucking caged animals. We pay someone to release animals in a contained area so we can hunt. Seriously. This should be sounding off alarms in everyone's heads. Of all the insane, but somehow justified stupidities of our people, what is that????!!!
Ok, so I'm done for now. Please, someone... PLEASE tell me why we need guns in our society. Don't give me a BS answer like, "it's in our constitution" or "we want to hunt". Don't tell me it'd be too hard to clean our country of guns. Don't tell me it's to protect ourselves from our own government or any other conspiracy theory. Seriously, tell me why an industrialized, militarily fortified, first world superpower needs to let civilians have access to guns.
It seems like after Columbine, not much around the US has changed. I'm sure most of you can guess what I think about guns in general, let alone guns without serious background/psychological checks. In my opinion, your opinions can fall into one of two categories because of basic human nature. Either you feel that we should all be armed, or that no one at all should carry guns.
In the first case, the defense would be, "Jack, if anyone in those classrooms had been packing, that shooting spree would've been over *much* sooner." Indeed, if a well trained shooter were in the classroom with a concealed weapon, they would've had a chance to end the spree. The downside to that is so plainly obvious, I barely feel that I have to state it. I should not have to feel obligated to carry a gun in order to feel safe when going to class. Full stop.
In the second case, the killer wouldn't have been able to walk into a walmart and buy a gun. The counter argument is, "Jack, you'll inevitably create a black market for guns and the rate of violent incidents will go up." I guess the rebuttal is two-fold. If I'm in London and I get in a fight, I could expect to get beaten to a pulp. I would *never* expect someone to pull out a gun and shoot me. I witnessed a fight between some gang members and some marines in Chicago and I was genuinely worried for *my* safety because of the possibility of a gun being in one of their possessions. The point of this is that, even if there's a black market for guns, it would keep most crazy nerds with death wishes away from them. You have to really try in most 1st world places to acquire a firearm. The second part of that is, even if I do get in a vicious fight in London and I get my ass kicked, the damage is contained to what people can do with their own hands. It adds a personal element to killing. You don't even have to look someone in the face to kill them with a gun.
Alright, now what if you're in between. Strict gun control, or just letting people be their own moral compasses and hope that this doesn't happen. Obviously, that's not working. It's not because of video games. It's not because we're the only country with guns (we're not). We've just proven to ourselves that our citizens are not responsible enough to own them. If we haven't proven that, we've at least proven that we need MUCH stronger gun control. A kid that produced those plays shouldn't be let near anything much more dangerous than a plastic spoon.
I sometimes strongly question a lot of our country's current motives for maintaining several beliefs that seem very antiquated. This isn't the only one. Other's include the idea that this is a Christian nation (<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html">http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html</a><!-- m -->). That's another story... I'm about to go off on a tangent. Either way, when we founded this country, we needed guns. Any day, the Brits could've come charging our shores and we would've needed guns to defend our families. Any day, banditos could've raided our settlements and taken our money and food. We could've been attacked by Indians. The list goes on. Today, we use guns for sport. We shoot at targets. Even better, we shoot at deer and other wildlife... and not to eat it (some do... I know... but do you really need to get a hard on before you eat?). My favorite is, we shoot at fucking caged animals. We pay someone to release animals in a contained area so we can hunt. Seriously. This should be sounding off alarms in everyone's heads. Of all the insane, but somehow justified stupidities of our people, what is that????!!!
Ok, so I'm done for now. Please, someone... PLEASE tell me why we need guns in our society. Don't give me a BS answer like, "it's in our constitution" or "we want to hunt". Don't tell me it'd be too hard to clean our country of guns. Don't tell me it's to protect ourselves from our own government or any other conspiracy theory. Seriously, tell me why an industrialized, militarily fortified, first world superpower needs to let civilians have access to guns.
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