HellaFlush

[balactm]

justin, i like the truck. i'm not gonna get into this discussion at all, but it certainly is entertaining. go for whatever look you want with your car, and regardless of the hate you get from it, just learn to enjoy what you have and don't worry about people telling you you're wrong, because if you are, you'll find out in the long run, and then everyone will be happy.

[ViPER1313]

Jon (aka NoVA_zEnKI) is legit. Dunno about the other dude with 1 post.

They are one and the same...

Are they? I wasn't insinuating that originally, I just thought it was someone who's been here for a while trying to stir up some friendly hate.

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[Toretto]You can find anything on the internet....[/Toretto]

[N0VA_zEnKI]

WARNING: Super long post ahead...

they typically use spring rates and damping developed over in Japan, where they have perfectly smooth tracks

You don't think Summit Point is flat? Or are you saying they're designed for the track and not for street use? Guess we should pick one topic and roll with it.

the tendency for Japanese shocks to be complete junk on the lower end (Tein, Buddy Club, Megan Racing, etc.).

Ya I'm familiar with those brands. And I'd agree that the lower end stuff is typically real cheap in quality. But that's lower end. That stuff doesn't compare to higher end Tein or JIC Magic. Ya get what ya pay for in a sense.... "JDM" coilover damper design in the affordable price range, tends to suck. The adjusters don't do much and they aren't consistent between dampers, and you won't know about their consistency unless you dyno them. Anyways, I personally went with Stance, http://stance-usa.com/sus/, the GR+ coilovers. Not the best of the business, but they're working out for me great.

Second, the use of the term lower the gravity. For him to say, we lower it for "stronger"(WTF) gravity makes me almost want to puke. Obviously no real research on suspension design, geometry, and engineering has taken place for that comment to be made.

Look, that's his comment, with his "research" attached to it, so we can pass on that... think he might have been trying to say lower the center of gravity and all. but I dont wanna put words in his mouth.

You can correctly "dump" a car by serious modification of geometry, but I have not seen this in one drifters and actually most road racer's cars. Thats why driftres go into road racing paddocks and go eewww sooo much wheel gap, its cause the road racers actually care.)

by all means I understand that you are messing with the well-engineered suspension geometry when you slam a car. For example, on a corolla you have to add RCAs and a panhard bar to get the geometry back to where it's supposed to be. Yes, many people who are into the "style" aspect are oblivious to this. But you gotta start picking better "drifters" to categorize MOST of their setups like that... (Hellaflush is not a drifting website) haha. In fact, I think I'm the last of my group of friends to still need to get adjustable suspension components. And compared to road racing, the setups tend to be actually quite similar (from what I hear from my buddies who do both), making setting up a car from drifting so easy since there is such a flow for aftermarket parts in road racing that we can buy! (RUCAs, toe rods, forward links, and tie rods work wonders on a 240)
But I believe that when you get that car lower, and deal with that geometry getting it set up right, the car will be faster.
I do think that if you lower a car solely for looks, it will in fact handle worse, in that the maximum grip threshold just isn't achieved due to many factors in the suspension design being compromised.

I think we have several topics kinda being circulated. The idea that all slammed cars represent the drifting community; not true. Just wanna clear that up. I'd say, spend a day at Summit on a drift nirvana day and talk to some of the guys on their setups. Wish I had the money they had!!! haha.
Also, kinda confused if we've moved into strictly drifting setups for the track, or if we're talking about daily driving cars, that drift too, or just daily cars that are "show-offish".

I've actually recently been looking into what components I'm going to be buying in the future. Apart from RUCA's, toe rods, and forward links, I'm looking into the roll center stuff too. I'd love to discuss some of that to wrap my mind around it some more.
http://www.frsport.com/Megan-Racing-MR-6...13764.html
http://www.frsport.com/SPL-Parts-PRO-Fro...15602.html

[Jeff]

HELLAflush...bitches.

[D_Eclipse9916]

WARNING: Super long post ahead...

they typically use spring rates and damping developed over in Japan, where they have perfectly smooth tracks

You don't think Summit Point is flat? Or are you saying they're designed for the track and not for street use? Guess we should pick one topic and roll with it.

the tendency for Japanese shocks to be complete junk on the lower end (Tein, Buddy Club, Megan Racing, etc.).

Ya I'm familiar with those brands. And I'd agree that the lower end stuff is typically real cheap in quality. But that's lower end. That stuff doesn't compare to higher end Tein or JIC Magic. Ya get what ya pay for in a sense.... "JDM" coilover damper design in the affordable price range, tends to suck. The adjusters don't do much and they aren't consistent between dampers, and you won't know about their consistency unless you dyno them. Anyways, I personally went with Stance, http://stance-usa.com/sus/, the GR+ coilovers. Not the best of the business, but they're working out for me great.

Second, the use of the term lower the gravity. For him to say, we lower it for "stronger"(WTF) gravity makes me almost want to puke. Obviously no real research on suspension design, geometry, and engineering has taken place for that comment to be made.

Look, that's his comment, with his "research" attached to it, so we can pass on that... think he might have been trying to say lower the center of gravity and all. but I dont wanna put words in his mouth.

You can correctly "dump" a car by serious modification of geometry, but I have not seen this in one drifters and actually most road racer's cars. Thats why driftres go into road racing paddocks and go eewww sooo much wheel gap, its cause the road racers actually care.)

by all means I understand that you are messing with the well-engineered suspension geometry when you slam a car. For example, on a corolla you have to add RCAs and a panhard bar to get the geometry back to where it's supposed to be. Yes, many people who are into the "style" aspect are oblivious to this. But you gotta start picking better "drifters" to categorize MOST of their setups like that... (Hellaflush is not a drifting website) haha. In fact, I think I'm the last of my group of friends to still need to get adjustable suspension components. And compared to road racing, the setups tend to be actually quite similar (from what I hear from my buddies who do both), making setting up a car from drifting so easy since there is such a flow for aftermarket parts in road racing that we can buy! (RUCAs, toe rods, forward links, and tie rods work wonders on a 240)
But I believe that when you get that car lower, and deal with that geometry getting it set up right, the car will be faster.
I do think that if you lower a car solely for looks, it will in fact handle worse, in that the maximum grip threshold just isn't achieved due to many factors in the suspension design being compromised.

I think we have several topics kinda being circulated. The idea that all slammed cars represent the drifting community; not true. Just wanna clear that up. I'd say, spend a day at Summit on a drift nirvana day and talk to some of the guys on their setups. Wish I had the money they had!!! haha.
Also, kinda confused if we've moved into strictly drifting setups for the track, or if we're talking about daily driving cars, that drift too, or just daily cars that are "show-offish".

I've actually recently been looking into what components I'm going to be buying in the future. Apart from RUCA's, toe rods, and forward links, I'm looking into the roll center stuff too. I'd love to discuss some of that to wrap my mind around it some more.
http://www.frsport.com/Megan-Racing-MR-6...13764.html
http://www.frsport.com/SPL-Parts-PRO-Fro...15602.html

Fair enough, I made my judgement based on your setup and also most of my friends along with a lot of the "grassroots" drifter setups ive seen.
Summit far from flat, a suspension is dialed in based on smoothness of the surface and the corners it will be taking. You do NOT want a Japanese setup for most of USA tracks, autocross and daily driver. You will actually have less traction. Because of our shitty roads and tracks (*cough turn 1, 5, 6, 7,8 Summit*) you actually want a more compliant suspension and although the car will "feel" loose, it is actually going to be faster as the suspension has to be able to work, not just become a pogo stick or a metal stick banging against concrete. This is what the Japanese-tuned low-speed rebound and compression fail to do miserably. And they dont fail because they suck necessarily, just they are tuned for a completely different set of roads.

I also hate the "adjustment" of shocks. OOOH I GOT 32 way adjustability. Most Japanese shocks have a TON of crosstalk between compression and rebound resulting in very poor shocks. Even higher end Tein, (have never seen any "real" data on Stance so no comment") and other japanese shocks have this problem. You also need to remember that one shock dyno plot does not answer all the questions. There are different frequency ranges in which you want to look at what the shock is doing.


There is working and optimal, and I myself have a working setup, one reason why I am trying to learn more about suspensions is to really get into the nitty gritty and try to get an optimal setup within the rules that I am allowed. ( I want to do TTD with the M3 so im very limited into what I can do). I had custom hats made for my Eclipse GSX as no off the shelf coilover hat had correct geometry to reduce stiction, bind, and bending forces throughout the suspension range.

My next step once I have learned enough about suspensions to even read some data plots is to actually get a data acquisition setup to learn more about what my particular suspension is doing. Its fun to me, yeah it may get me......half a second of time, and definitely isnt worth it, but I like doing this stuff sooooo yeah, a lot of pain, very little to gain, but thats what happens when you start to get past jsut throwing on off-the-shelf parts.

I could proceed, but I think we have like 20 different topics going on at once as you said. So I will try to dial it down. Ask for shock plots before you get your shocks, or take them to get dynoplotted and dialed in. Adjustments are to get the shocks all working the same, not to stiffen up and loosen. Then figure out what optimal spring rates, and go with the smallest spring for better clearance. Then youll realize, oh wait, I could have started out with a better shock (bilstein or Koni) and done all that for less than the cost of a generic coilover setup while getting your car setup to be way better.


Of course I could be completely wrong, this is my knowledge of suspensions based on data instead of conjecture and advertising bias. So you can either talk with me and hopefully we both learn more, or just dismiss me as an old fart that would rather know whats actually happening then to trust some advertising on a coilover that is marketed as being able to do everything. (I compare coilovers advertised to the masses as all-seasons. They do everything good enough, but not each purpose the best).

[BLINGMW]

I could proceed, but I think we have like 20 different topics going on

I think you've been had. There are really no topics in this thread. And you're trying to argue aesthetics with function. It's like arguing with a woman! You must be really bored! :vomit:

[D_Eclipse9916]

^^ Actually I was discussing with Nova Zenki.

But yeah...I am really bored at work today, knocked out some EACs and a budget and have nothing to do today.

[ScottyB]

I would like you to find a thread of mine, where everyone hasnt stated they hate me (im damn serious ).

that's because you wouldn't stop talking about Shep :lol:

[balactm]

HELLAflush...bitches.

hahaha yes. mega-bawlin.

[Feersty]

Some good examples of some pretty sweet cars in here.

[BLAIR]

im actually a huge fan of the hellaflush look. it may not always be practical but its damn pimpin. Ill post up some pics when i have more time.

PS i run 225's and 235's on my 10's yea yeaaaaaaa

[REED]