Sporty Sedan?

[Steve85]

We just got the wife a CX-5 so i"m thinking about ditching the Edge for a sporty sedan.

The cars that are coming up in the search are 2009-2011...
328i / 335i
IS250 / 350
C300 / 350
CTS / an ATS or two ($$)
Infiniti G-Series
A4 / A3

Of the group, favorite is the 335i. From there the 328 and C300 are a toss up. I didn't realize the C300 Sport was available with a 3-pedal manual and I love the look. By all accounts the C300 is more luxury than sport when compared to the BMW, but I'd probably be OK with that trade-off.

Any idea how the BMW turbo motors are holding up? Anything I should know about any of the others? What else should I look at? 4 doors, manual, AWD option, 'round 20K, not too old. I've been tempted by the E46 ZHP but they are getting pretty old at this point.

Top picks:

[.RJ]

That Benz is hot.

[HAULN-SS]

Good luck finding a ZHP that you'll like. I looked for a few months, gave up, bought ATS. I looked at newer BMWs too, and the thing that annoyed me is that they are so option based, a lot of the interiors were just bland as hell. They literally looked like they were stuck in the 90s. I couldnt find a C300 that I like that was in my price range at the time - they seemed high for what they were, but I did like them better. FWIW i'd rather have an E class though. Do your own research, but a quick ebay search leads me to believe you can probably get close to your price range: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-Benz-E-Class-E350-4MATIC-W212-AWD-4-MATIC-4WD-HK-P2-E-350-NAV-XENON-POWER-TRUNK-PDC-KEYLESS-/251762934481?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3a9e3d82d1&item=251762934481&pt=US_Cars_Trucks">http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-Benz-E ... ars_Trucks</a><!-- m -->

[RawrImAMonster]

What year 335i specifically? I ask because they switched motors in 2011.

In 2010 and before you get the N54, which is the same as what I have. This is the actual twin turbo one (rather than the twin-scroll single turbo on the 2011 and up). The actual motor itself doesn't tend to have many problems. In fact, no one has ever broken one from making too much power yet. The things that are attached to the motor can have problems though. The turbos are warrantied to 72k/7 years for a waste gate defect. The high pressure fuel pumps (HPFP) were a big source of problems when these cars first came out, but have since been mostly fixed in software updates. Either way, this is warrantied to 8 years/84k. Water pumps tend to go around the 50-70k mileage range and that will end up costing you around 500 bucks in parts since it is an electric water pump. Fuel injectors are the other potential costly item. The original injectors were prone to failure, but the part has since been revised and isn't much of a problem anymore. Fuel injectors are roughly $110 a piece, plus they need to be coded with exact flow rates. You can do this yourself with a $100 cable or you can take it to a dealership or indy shop.

Having said all of that, I haven't had any of these problems yet and I'm at ~44k. From what I've read the newer (N55) motor tends to be less problematic. It still has issues with the water pumps, but I think most of the other problems have been remedied. The downside to the N55 is that it isn't nearly as mod friendly since it only has a single turbo.

On the N54, intakes and a tune will put you at roughly 350whp. On an n55, you would probably have to add a downpipe and an intercooler to get close to that number, and it's kind of tapped out at that point unless you go with e85 or something similar.

[Jake]

What Steven said re: N54 vs N55. I'd get an N55 all day, N54 scares me. If you get a BMW, make sure you get the sport package - the seats alone make it worth the effort to find one. The 328i will be a bit easier on the maintenance budget (N52 motor) and they aren't that slow, but the 335i is definitely where it's at if you want emphasis on "sport."

Have you driven a manual-trans Benz? My mom has a Crossfire which is an SLK 320 underneath, and holy cow, it's a terrible transmission and driving experience. The automatic would be a far better pairing in her car (sadly) and I am curious how it'd be in the C300.

[Steve85]

Good luck finding a ZHP that you'll like. I looked for a few months, gave up, bought ATS. I looked at newer BMWs too, and the thing that annoyed me is that they are so option based, a lot of the interiors were just bland as hell. They literally looked like they were stuck in the 90s. I couldnt find a C300 that I like that was in my price range at the time - they seemed high for what they were, but I did like them better. FWIW i'd rather have an E class though. Do your own research, but a quick ebay search leads me to believe you can probably get close to your price range: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-Benz-E-Class-E350-4MATIC-W212-AWD-4-MATIC-4WD-HK-P2-E-350-NAV-XENON-POWER-TRUNK-PDC-KEYLESS-/251762934481?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3a9e3d82d1&item=251762934481&pt=US_Cars_Trucks">http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-Benz-E ... ars_Trucks</a><!-- m -->

While the E-Class would be a little more family friendly, damn kids are growing like weeds, it crosses over too much into the luxury vs sport. At that point I'd just get a more value packed FWD mid-sizer since "fun-to-drive" would be pretty compromised.
Yeah, I'm having the same trouble with the ZHP, good condition, well maintained are more than I want to spend on a car that age. There have been a few so I'll keep looking.

[Steve85]

Jake and Stephen -
Good stuff, thanks! I've been reading forums and it did seem everyone who had turbos replaced mentioned it was under warranty mostly for a wastegate rattle. It's nice to know I can take that extended warranty period into consideration when looking at my options. I'll take a closer look at what 's available in the 2011+ MY though.

Yes, sport package is a must, I get the impression it's the modern ZHP approach, not full M setup, but definitely tighter.

I haven't driven a manual Benz, I'll try to drive a manual and auto and see what the deal is. I think they offered a paddle option too but could be mistaken. Trying to learn what all the option packages are for these cars and it's hard to keep it all straight.

I come back to the 328 sport a lot when I think about wanting to get out to the track a few times a year.

[SlimKlim]

A 328i has a lot of ass to shift with 200ft-lbs at the motor.

What's your budget looking like? The 335is really is the modern version of the ZHP, a smidge more power and more finely tuned than a regular 335i M-sport package, but not quite as crazy as the M3. They'll definitely carry a premium over the regular 335i, and it might be hard to find a 3 pedal version because a lot of them came with a dual clutch, which may or may not be a problem depending on your preferences.

Also if you want a larger sedan, still want it to be relatively sporty, and you don't mind driving an ugly car, an E60 535i with a 6-speed could be a good option. More room for the kiddos without completely sacrificing daddy's need for a clutch pedal and boost.

[Kaan]

2003-2008 B6/7 Audi S4 V8... I don't know why I want to punish myself but I'd be all over one.

[SlimKlim]

2003-2008 B6/7 Audi S4 V8... I don't know why I want to punish myself but I'd be all over one.

I'll take "Shit I Never Thought Kaan Would Say" for $2000 Alex...

I take back what I said about the 335is, I think it only came in Coupe and Convertible and it looks like they're at least $35k still

[.RJ]

2003-2008 B6/7 Audi S4 V8... I don't know why I want to punish myself but I'd be all over one.

[Steve85]

And that's the BACK of the motor, right? So it's not even like you can just take off the water pump and front cover and replace all the shit that keeps it quiet and tight.

Don't get me wrong, once you have a sort of bad idea, it's easier to flow down to a worse idea that at least for a short time would be so good. But just because I smoke cigars, doesn't mean I should smoke crack too.

Anyone put an LS in C300 yet?

[.RJ]

Yes, its the back of the motor against the firewall. I still havent given up on buying an S4 Avant though.

[Kaan]

my bother was an Audi mechanic... he helps with this bad idea. he said the motors are good to go and the B6 transmission issues were solved by the B7...

[Goodspeed]

Anyone put an LS in C300 yet?

No, but

[SlimKlim]

^ Would fuchs wit.

[Kaan]

This looks completely normal. normal enough to pay someone to work on it.

[.RJ]

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/ctd/4815614503.html">http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/ctd/4815614503.html</a><!-- m -->

60k miles, for $17k... seems pretty good to me?

[Mike]

get off my CL.