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+--- Thread: To those with M3's (/showthread.php?tid=8786)
To those with M3's - RawrImAMonster - 03-21-2010
Now that I have ridden along in a few of these during the autocross today, I am highly considering getting one. My question to you all is how many miles are on your alls cars?
Basically I just want to know if getting one with 100-120k and autocrossing it is going to be safe. How well do these cars hold up?
Re: To those with M3's - Jake - 03-21-2010
Let's see... Joey's yellow 95 has ~152k I think. DJ's white 99 has 147k. Pretty sure Kyle's blue one (a 96 I think) is up there too. They seem to hold up well - based on hearing things from Joey's perspective - although I know the cooling system is the 'weak spot' but with that many miles on any car, it'd be a weak spot. Oh, and they seem to like to blow power steering lines, but once you fix them they hold up well.
I'm sure the actual M3 owners will chime in, but from what I've seen, heard, experienced... they generally hold up well if they are taken care of. The E36 M3 was made from 1995-1999, coupe or sedan or 'vert. The coupes are what's up for AX.
Re: To those with M3's - kcook - 03-21-2010
I have 151k on mine and I have no complaints as far as reliability issues, but then again Ive only owned it for 4 months. The car runs like a champ and Im still blown away by the handling on this car compared to my wrx
Re: To those with M3's - .RJ - 03-21-2010
If you want an older M3 make sure its been very well cared for. If its been ignored and only replaced things as needed, it will need a lot of parts for any autox/track use. All the cooling system bits, suspension bushings, shocks and a few other bits will be well worn out by that mileage and it wont be cheap when it all adds up.
Re: To those with M3's - RawrImAMonster - 03-21-2010
Well anything I get will probably be from the dealer's auctions, so knowing its history probably isn't an option. However I can probably get one with decent mileage for 4-5k so I can afford to have to fix a few things.
Re: To those with M3's - D_Eclipse9916 - 03-22-2010
I warn you to stay away from 4-5k m3s. The one thing with m3s is they are perfectly reliable until somebody laxes on the maintenance, and then they are money pits!!!
I bought mine and made sure it was 100% when I bought it, in fact the guy I bought it from autoxs with BRR-SCCA and runs with NASA. (Never autoxed the m3 but wanted to). The only issue ive had is a blown power steering line, but that is common and known, and I replaced with some Pegasus Auto Racing hose.
Now I am anal so I have already bought every suspension piece for the front and rear of the car (control arms, tie rods, sway bar links, reinforcers etc.) Reinforcers are also very important and thats something that will get expensive if you dont do it yourself. I also bought an aluminum radiator, aluminum thermo housing, electric fan, Stewart water pump, thermostat, hoses, motor mounts to make sure she is cooled properly, and am safety wiring the oil pump nut and have a VAC oil pan baffle all ready to be put in.
I consider all of the above a MUST personally on a higher mileage m3. Fortunately most of those parts are cheap if you shop around. (entire suspension stuff and reinforcers came under $700, radiator only $200, the two things that shocked me on price was the Stewart Hi-Performance Water pump, which I got on heavy sale for $160 and the VAC oil pan baffle was $200.
I will personally be throwing in my roll bar/seats/harnesses in the next few weeks along with the above mods and I must warn you again about the expensive price for seat mounts for an E36 M3 (proper ones made for you are 200 a side, I did something different but it was still relatively expensive), roll bars are generally cheap, and proper rims tire combos arent too bad.
Pads.....relatively expensive depending on the pad (HPS are actually cheap, but my PFC06s are $200 front, $200 rear), rotors are each $40 bucks, so cheap (bought 3 sets for my 3 pad sets).
Overall, buy a nice one, not worth it to try to fix a pretty beat one in my opinion, itll frustrate you and you wont enjoy driving it. That said, this car makes me grin like nobody's business, and although I miss the GSX terribly mainly for raw crazy power, the m3 is just soo...fluid...perfect. I dont regret the decision.
Re: To those with M3's - RawrImAMonster - 03-22-2010
Well, keep in mind that the only reason they would be that cheap is because they are wholesale. The 4-5k ones i mentioned would typically go for 6-7k otherwise.
Also, if I get one, it definitely wouldn't be to daily drive, so a certain degree of unreliability isn't a huge issue. Since I won't be daily driving it, I don't really feel like it would be worth it to spend a lot of money on a super nice one.
Like I said, at this point I'm just exploring the idea. I haven't really done enough research on them to see if it would be worth it or not, but I wanted to see what kind of mileage the ones at the autocross yesterday had.
Re: To those with M3's - .RJ - 03-22-2010
RawrImAMonster Wrote:Also, if I get one, it definitely wouldn't be to daily drive, so a certain degree of unreliability isn't a huge issue. Since I won't be daily driving it, I don't really feel like it would be worth it to spend a lot of money on a super nice one.
The nicer, well maintained car will save a lot of $$ and hassle in the end. Its easy to think you can do it cheaper, and while parts are somewhat reasonable it all adds up fast if everything is worn out on the car. I think we had a thread on this here already, but the cars are just plain worn out by 100-120k if you are looking at them for track/autox use. You can get a nice E36 M3 for < $10k now.
I would be more concerned about worn out busted shit on a track car than a DD - busted suspension bits wont leave you stranded on the road, but they can end your track weekend that you spent a lot of $$ to attend, or put you in a tire wall.
Re: To those with M3's - G.Irish - 03-22-2010
.RJ Wrote:I would be more concerned about worn out busted shit on a track car than a DD - busted suspension bits wont leave you stranded on the road, but they can end your track weekend that you spent a lot of $$ to attend, or put you in a tire wall.QFT
Having something break on your DD means you might have to get a ride from friends or take the bus. Having something fail on your car on track could be a waste of an entry fee, frantic parking lot repairs, and/or a big towing bill. It really is not fun having an unreliable car at the track.
Not saying to avoid the wholesale route, but I would recommend going over the car with a fine-toothed comb and be willing to walk away from a few cars before you find 'the one'. Busted car hassles can seriously kill a lot of your enthusiasm for driving for a long time.
Re: To those with M3's - .RJ - 03-22-2010
G.Irish Wrote:I would recommend going over the car with a fine-toothed comb and be willing to walk away from a few cars before you find 'the one'. Busted car hassles can seriously kill a lot of your enthusiasm for driving for a long time.
Or be willing to spend $3-4k and a few long weekends rebuilding the car.
Re: To those with M3's - RawrImAMonster - 03-22-2010
Eh, it was just an idea. I had hoped the cheaper ones would hold up a little better. Looks like I should just shoot for an LS1 like I have been.
Re: To those with M3's - .RJ - 03-22-2010
Its not a bad idea, you just have to know what you are getting into
Re: To those with M3's - D_Eclipse9916 - 03-22-2010
For the price (with the maintenance), the M3 is the best autox/track car I could find out there that still had "some" amount of power.
If I was willing to pay for humongously expensive tires it would be a C5 z06, if I really wanted cheap and reliable at the expense of power, I would have gone miata.
Re: To those with M3's - SlimKlim - 03-22-2010
It seems like all M3s sort of cost the same.
I would budget 10k for an M3. Whether you buy a beater for $3500 and spend $6500 making it right. Or a high mileage reasonably well maintained car for $7000 and spend $2500 (or $5k, ask me how I know) getting everything smoothed out, or you buy a lower mileage one with a perfect maintenance record for $10k.
I bought my car for $7250 including registration, and proceeded to put almost $5k into it to smooth out all the small issues. Mind you, lots of the big stuff had been done, a complete cooling system overhall, new clutch, etc. I had things like sway bar links, wheel bearings, new tires, ignition coils, various gaskets, shifter assembly, some interior stuff and a list that goes and goes.
If you're going to do it and want it for performance purposes, I'd buy one already modified though, as the cost is pretty much the same. Mine already had the H&Rs, Bilsteins, sway bars, exhaust and some other stuff on it when I bought it. Ive got about 12k total invested in it right now, and I bought it in July, but I can count on my fingers the important things that haven't been replaced recently, so I should be good to go for a long while.
Re: To those with M3's - RawrImAMonster - 03-22-2010
I think you all have pretty much steered me away from them. Sounds like they are about like dsm's in terms of reliability from what you all are saying.
10k is definitely more than I would spend on a car just for the track right now. I am paying for college after all.
Re: To those with M3's - SlimKlim - 03-22-2010
I DD mine just fine with only a few inches of clearance (the top of the N on a can of natural light to be exact), and I hustled my insurance agent into covering me for HPDE's.
Re: To those with M3's - D_Eclipse9916 - 03-22-2010
RawrImAMonster Wrote:I think you all have pretty much steered me away from them. Sounds like they are about like dsm's in terms of reliability from what you all are saying.
10k is definitely more than I would spend on a car just for the track right now. I am paying for college after all.
If your comparing to a completely stock dsm yes....as soon as you mod a dsm it is 10 times more unreliable. We are just realistic, you should hear what we say about other cars. I bought my m3 for the improved reliability over anything in its price range. If you want to autox it and DD it, simply make sure the radiator has been replaced within 60k miles, make sure rear shock monts arent ripped along with the subframe, and go on your way. We are just suggesting these mods if you want a perfectly reliable track car, you can get away with a lot more being a autox/dd car.
Re: To those with M3's - RawrImAMonster - 03-22-2010
Well, when I said track I meant just autox. Basically I just want a autocross beater that has at least some power. So, do you think I can get away with being relatively cheap for just an autox car?
Re: To those with M3's - kcook - 03-22-2010
why not look into getting a 325 or 328 for half the price of an M3?
Re: To those with M3's - TorinoCobra070 - 03-22-2010
kcook Wrote:why not look into getting a 325 or 328 for half the price of an M3?
Because this is Madison Miatas and M3's, not Miatas and 325's
