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+--- Thread: My name is Travis and I have a problem (/showthread.php?tid=868)
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My name is Travis and I have a problem - KPWSerpiente - 08-26-2004
I hope that by first admitting my problem that I can come to cope.
Ok. Here I go. I am addicted to b00st. There, that's it. Please please please don't let me slap what I just bought to my car...I might never recover.
![[Image: 525019_7_full.jpg]](http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_img_a/525019_7_full.jpg)
Ignore the stuff on it. It is brand new.
![[Image: 525019_8_full.jpg]](http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_img_a/525019_8_full.jpg)
The wheel is a 60 trim. Rated at 52 lbs/min.
RJ says boost means nothing. He is correct up to a point. Telling someone how much pressure you are subjecting the charge air to means nothing unless they are familiar with the turbo you are running. Telling someone how much air you flow is always a better indicator of power being made. Jack was asking me a few days ago how is 20psi on this turbo better than 20psi on the Evo16G...obviously the pressure the air is put under is the same, but this wheel outflows the Evo3 turbo by a lot. I was logging 35 lbs/min of air on the evo16g when I made 320 at the wheels. I hope to flow over 45 lbs/min on this one...I'm sure you are capable of doing the required math.
Anyway, I really do need help. Scotty won't ever get to drive the car the way I dynoed it (I'm a liar, sorry) but he will be the second to get behind the wheel once I've installed, broken in, and tuned this thing.
-T
- .RJ - 08-26-2004
I dont see any pics, but You're definately f'ed
Oh, and I want a ride.
- ScottyB - 08-26-2004
GET 'ER DONE!
- Feersty - 08-26-2004
Come on Travis you are better than this.
- Mike - 08-26-2004
This is all I've got to say:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.mjcomputer.net/files/music/turbo_biznatches.mp3">http://www.mjcomputer.net/files/music/t ... atches.mp3</a><!-- m -->
- KPWSerpiente - 08-26-2004
Pictures should be working now?
And dude, Mike...I expected something cooler than Queen. I listened to the whole thing waiting for something worthwhile.
Rides for all...but if RJ wants one I'd rather do it with him instructing me at VIR or on another track.
-T
- Ryan T - 08-26-2004
Pictures work. Looks like your case of boost rot is gonna be getting a lot worse real real soon.
- Dave - 08-26-2004
Travis. There is help available, but very few are able to cope with life without b00st, once they start to suffer from b00st rot. Every day, I yearn for a hit, but the itch is slowly going away. May god have mercy on your soul.
P.S. I want a ride too :twisted:
- Evan - 08-26-2004
KPWSerpiente Wrote:Rides for all...but if RJ wants one I'd rather do it with him instructing me at VIR or on another track.w00t
cant wait to hear it wail down the back straight
- Maengelito - 08-27-2004
KPWSerpiente Wrote:Rides for all...but if RJ wants one I'd rather do it with him instructing me at VIR or on another track.
-T
b00sted all terrain vehicle?
- JackoliciousLegs - 08-27-2004
Maengelito Wrote:b00sted all terrain vehicle?lol...
Travis' car was sick fast before. Now it's going to be nearing Chris H. fast. Let's all take a moment...
- Mike - 08-27-2004
Dave Wrote:Every day, I yearn for a hit, but the itch is slowly going away.
lol that gave me a mental picture of "david biggums."
- Mike - 08-27-2004
JackoliciousLegs Wrote:Travis' car was sick fast before. Now it's going to be nearing Chris H. fast. Let's all take a moment...
Chris H fast as in "hasn't moved an inch in the past 2 years"???
- JohnC - 08-27-2004
JackoliciousLegs Wrote:Maengelito Wrote:b00sted all terrain vehicle?lol...
Travis' car was sick fast before. Now it's going to be nearing Chris H. fast. Let's all take a moment...
Careful Travis... Here's the Chris H. story in a nutshell:
Fast.
Exploded.
Faster.
Explodeder.
Way Faster.
Way Explodeder.
Props to Chris of course for having the fortitude to keep going back and turning up the boost
hock:
- Mike - 08-27-2004
mongooze Wrote:JackoliciousLegs Wrote:Maengelito Wrote:b00sted all terrain vehicle?lol...
Travis' car was sick fast before. Now it's going to be nearing Chris H. fast. Let's all take a moment...
Careful Travis... Here's the Chris H. story in a nutshell:
Fast.
Exploded.
Faster.
Explodeder.
Way Faster.
Way Explodeder.
Props to Chris of course for having the fortitude to keep going back and turning up the boost
There were a few more explosions in there too, he had the unfortunate luck to have some crappy machining done to stuff. He swears it'll be running this weekend, I call BS. But if it does move under its own power I've got a new daily driver
- CaptainHenreh - 08-27-2004
So you have mad traction problems, and you buy a bigger turbo?
Looks pretty though. Will it bolt to your manifold? Where'd you get it?
Re: My name is Travis and I have a problem - mpg9999 - 08-27-2004
KPWSerpiente Wrote:RJ says boost means nothing. He is correct up to a point. Telling someone how much pressure you are subjecting the charge air to means nothing unless they are familiar with the turbo you are running. Telling someone how much air you flow is always a better indicator of power being made. Jack was asking me a few days ago how is 20psi on this turbo better than 20psi on the Evo16G...obviously the pressure the air is put under is the same, but this wheel outflows the Evo3 turbo by a lot. I was logging 35 lbs/min of air on the evo16g when I made 320 at the wheels. I hope to flow over 45 lbs/min on this one...I'm sure you are capable of doing the required math.
Anyway, I really do need help. Scotty won't ever get to drive the car the way I dynoed it (I'm a liar, sorry) but he will be the second to get behind the wheel once I've installed, broken in, and tuned this thing.
-T
Congrats on the new snail. Boost is fun. Hope you like buying tires
About your answer to your friend about why 20 psi on two different turbo's is the same. Its wrong. It doesnt really have anything to do with how many lbs/min the turbo can flow. If it cant flow enough, it wont be able to support that boost pressure. The engine is what determines how much air flow there will be. Let me give an example with completely made up number. Lets say you have a small 1 liter engine with a turbo running 15 psi. The turbo is well matched to this engines, and it runs efficiently. You now put this exact same turbo on a 2 liter engine, again at 15 psi. It now flows twice as much and has to spin a whole lot faster to get to 15 psi. It is now way off of any of the center islands on its compressor map. Next, we put this turbo on a big 5 liter V8. Now it can't even flow enough air to get to that 15 psi. Notice the turbo is the same, the engine dictates different flow rates for a given psi. Looking at how much the turbo flows can give a rough indication to how good of a match it will be. Compressor maps are much better for this.
All of this becomes apparent when you look at a compressor map. The X axis is airflow. The formula you use to determine aiflow is Mf=DI x displacment in CI x (rpm/2)xvolumetric efficency. You can see how its the engine that dictates flow. There is no variable for how many lbs/min the turbo flows.
So, what makes two different turbo's on the same motor produce different amounts of power at the same boost level? The reason is efficiency (both compressor and turbine), having a good compressor turbine match, and a less restrictive turbine. Compressor efficiency is basically how much does the compressor heat up the air over what the ideal gas law says it has too. A modern well designed turbo will reach 80% compressor efficiency. A more efficient compressor will heat the air much less then say an old inefficient root type blower. The the turbien is efficient and is matched well to the compressor, less energy is needed to spool up the turbo. That results in better response and/or more power by being able to run a less restrictive housing. Which is the next reason, backpressure on the engine. A larger turbine housing will give more power by creating less backpressure on the engine, at the expense of spool up time. Some turbo motors with very efficient turbo's and big turbines can reach volumetric efficiency levels of over 100% while in crossover. Crossover is when the the pressure being created by the compressor is greater then the total backpressure on the engine. In effect you have negative backpressure.
Or maybe IM wrong, and dont know what im talking about. I like getting into a good technical argument. Always a good learning experience.
Happy boosting,
-Mike
- KPWSerpiente - 08-27-2004
^We are talking about one 2.0 liter engine, mine. And two different turbos one which will flow a certain amount of air in a minute and another that will flow more at the same boost.
I don't have maps for both turbos (I have never seen a map for the evo16g) but lets pretend my current smaller turbo is 90% efficient at 20 psi (just pretend with me) and this new larger one is only 10% efficient. If the wheel on the less efficient one is large enough it can still flow more air and make more power.
Quote:Or maybe IM wrong, and dont know what im talking about. I like getting into a good technical argument. Always a good learning experience.
You aren't saying anything wrong, it just doesn't have anything to do with what is going on here. Small wheel putting out a small amount of air vs a larger wheel putting out a larger amount of air. Engine size and boost remain constant the only difference is how much air one compressor pushes out vs another.
In other news as a fwd car I can't ever be as quick as Chris. I also don't know what he was trapping but I doubt I am faster. Explosions will not happen with this car unless something catostrophic and out of my control takes place.
-T
- KPWSerpiente - 08-27-2004
Turbo is in the car. If I had a lower intercooler piping that would connect the compressor outlet to the intercooler it would be running. I couldn't ghetto rig it with what I had (I might need to take a trip over to Home Depot Racing) or I'll just wait for the piping I ordered to come in next week.
-T
- JackoliciousLegs - 08-28-2004
HOOOOME DEPOT RACING TYPE RRRR!!!! That's like my blow off valve
