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+--- Thread: Learn me some turbah kits (/showthread.php?tid=7047)
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Learn me some turbah kits - Evan - 03-04-2008
so hypothetically if I were to put together a turbo kit for a car, what parts and work would I need?
The turbo manifold, downpipe, intake, IC and piping is the obvious stuff. (and engine management) What else needs to be done? Running oil and/or coolant lines to the turbo etc ?
- CaptainHenreh - 03-04-2008
Have you read Maximum Boost? It's in my library, you can borrow it if you wish.
You've pretty much got it. Piping, turbo, exhaust manifold and downpipe, oil & coolant lines (you'll need to tap a pan for the return and find someplace on the block or head for feed) and then your engine management.
I hear they've got megasquirts that bolt-in for miatas now.
- Kaan - 03-04-2008
daily driven i'd have to add oil cooler (maybe with a filter relocation)... maybe a catch can?
- CaptainHenreh - 03-04-2008
You'll also need to make sure your fuel pump and injectors have enough sack...but looking at all the turbocharged and supercharged miatas out there, that might not be a big deal.
- Kaan - 03-04-2008
oh and you might want to gauge it up a bit. A/F, boost, oil temp/pressure, stuff like that. you'll want to baby sit the damn car with the gauges. but they can help figure out if you are starting to have an issue.
- Evan - 03-04-2008
hrm ok. So its about what I thought then. I guess the PITA parts are fabbing the IC piping and IC mounts.
For the coolant and oil lines to the turbo, do those have to be hard lines or can I run soft lines?
That could be a PITA if it needs hard lines.
The turbo miata thing has been done ad naseum so Im sure I wont have a hard time finding where to get water and oil to feed the turbo so Im not worried about that part.
lots of cheap stuff out there.... like this
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Turbo-Manifold-Downpipe-Mazda-90-93-Miata-MX5-1-6L_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQihZ015QQitemZ250220919793QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW">http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Turbo-Ma ... enameZWDVW</a><!-- m -->
- Goodspeed - 03-04-2008
This is something I've immersed myself in ever since I bought a turbo car. I'd like to think I know a "little something" about turbo cars and kits and I'm still learning the ins-and-outs.
Some good info already. You can either buy a pre-made kit from companies like Greddy or Turbonetics, or you can piece together your own. If you decide on the latter, I'd recommend:
- Cast turbo manifold - durable, will almost never crack like a tubular manifold can, some might say quicker spool.
- T25 turbo from a S13/S14 SR20DET etc. for quick spool on the little 1.8, you'll want mid-range drivability above all else
- Rising rate FPR would be the bare minimum in protection against fuel starvation. If you want to do it right, get a pump, FPR, injectors and some way to tune it like a S-AFC or Greddy E-Manage. If you want to be baller status, you can get rid of the factory restrictive MAF setup and run something like a MAFT-Pro or MAP ECU in speed-density mode. If you want to be dirt cheap, maybe you can hack the MAF and retard your timing and hope it doesn't blow up. If you choose to keep the stock MAF you'll have to retrofit it onto some sort of intake pipe for the turbo
- What others have said...oil and possibly coolant lines, perhaps a FMIC (but you may not need it at low boost levels), some sort of downpipe and exhaust, and boost/oil pressure/wideband gauges etc.
- Colder spark plugs, clutch to handle the added torque, perhaps a larger/more efficient radiator
- Watch out for dirt-cheap stuff. Its all made in China and is usually hit or miss. It might be a good starter point if you can get someone to redo some welds for you and clean them up a bit, but be careful.
- Kaan - 03-04-2008
Evan Wrote:hrm ok. So its about what I thought then. I guess the PITA parts are fabbing the IC piping and IC mounts.
I'm pretty sure we can handle that. i've got enough spare metal in the two car to make any type of IC mount you might want.
- CaptainHenreh - 03-04-2008
Goodspeed Wrote:- Rising rate FPR would be the bare minimum in protection against fuel starvation. If you want to do it right, get a pump, FPR, injectors and some way to tune it like a S-AFC or Greddy E-Manage. If you want to be baller status, you can get rid of the factory restrictive MAF setup and run something like a MAFT-Pro or MAP ECU in speed-density mode. If you want to be dirt cheap, maybe you can hack the MAF and retard your timing and hope it doesn't blow up.
RRFPR's are dumb ideas, just a bandaid for poorly thought out "kits". I believe evan is talking about going with Megasquirt for fuel management if anything comes of this, so that's not a concern. That also eliminates the MAFS...but I think for a low boost junkyard kit, you wouldn't need any of that stuff.
- Evan - 03-04-2008
ok some good info here. Let me share my inspiration for this idea.
I have a 1990 1.6L miata. Got it for silly cheap, Ive had it for a couple years, it served as a DD for about 6 months, and runs pretty good but just sits around now waiting for a project. (Ive had ideas for this car running from rallyX car to propane power it)
Yesterday a coworker offered to give me the same T25 turbo out of a Silvia that you speak of Goodspeed, that he had planned to put on his fwd SR20 (before they started pulling a premium)
So I look on ebay, and holy crap are miata turbo parts cheap. I start getting evil ideas.
Then I start thinking more, The 1.6L is a shortnose crank and Ive got this good 1.8L miata engine sitting in my garage. Better base power, and lower compression. Would cost me less than $200 to drop it in the 1.6L
and then the slippery slope of ideas begins... like why not just buy a cheap 94+ (1.8L) car since they have LSDs and some upgrades....and the 90 needs some more work anyway etc
but back to the goal of the project, I want something dirt cheap. Im not dumping a shit ton of money into a toy that will probably blow up anyway.
so my quest is to find out how much money, and how much time and effort it would take to build a turbo miata.
- Goodspeed - 03-04-2008
Evan Wrote:so my quest is to find out how much money, and how much time and effort it would take to build a turbo miata.
"Money, time, effort" is a lot like "fast, cheap, reliable - pick any two" when it comes to your situation IMO. If you want to reduce your time and effort, you'll have to spend two to three thousand dollars on a pre-made kit that usually comes with instructions and a warranty. If you want to save money (which seems like your goal) take the above advice and those of fellow turbo Miata owners and piece together your own kit which will take some time and research. Either way, in the end you will be totally corrupted and stupid-happy.
- HAULN-SS - 03-04-2008
..or buy a small block and do a blow-through carb job for cheap =)
- JustinG - 03-04-2008
guys piece together turbokits for the N/A eclipses for around 1k. Run around 7psi with the following....
Exhaust manifold
DP
Turbo w/ internal WG
Rising Rate FPR
IC Piping
Silicone Couplers
Side Mount intercooler off whatever they can find.
Downpipe
MBC
Boost & EGT gauges
Lemme know if you have any questions, i did kinda turbo a N/A car at one point and time, but we wont speak of it to much.
- Goodspeed - 03-04-2008
white97dsm Wrote:i did kinda turbo a N/A car at one point and time, but we wont speak of it to much.
Ballin'!!!!!!
![[Image: img0390gq7.jpg]](http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/9940/img0390gq7.jpg)
- JustinG - 03-04-2008
Goodspeed Wrote:white97dsm Wrote:i did kinda turbo a N/A car at one point and time, but we wont speak of it to much.
Ballin'!!!!!!
yea, thats was my third car, did you even have a license then goodspeed? And i was tuning with megasquirt in that pic, thanks. I kinda miss that car.
- Maengelito - 03-04-2008
evan, b00sted miatas are plentiful and assembling parts shouldnt be too hard, not that i've had similar evil ideas or done similar searching... dont forget to tackle increasing the efficiency of the cooling system which is already a pretty weak point in miatas.
- Mike - 03-04-2008
is that a webtv keyboard?
- Dave - 03-04-2008
ubercharger!!!!!!!11!1
I've wanted to buy a miata just to put a Flyin Miata ubercharger on it. Unfortuneately, that's an expensive way to accomplish the same thing you can peice together.
So far the only thing I feel like I would add is to resist the temptation to get that monster intercooler and big piping. In a small displacement motor it'll feel like it takes forever to spool up because it has to fill up and pressurize all of that extra volume compared to a properly sized and pipe and intercooler.
Or you could bypass all of that, and put a pipe right from the turbo to the manifold and get some wicked throttle response and spool times. Just watch your temps or you'll blow the welds on your intake (Danger to Manifold!!1!1!)
- BLAIR - 03-04-2008
fabbing intercooler piping and intercooler mounting is the easiest part :lol:
- JustinG - 03-04-2008
Mike Wrote:is that a webtv keyboard?
mini PS2 keyboard