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+--- Thread: Honda Civic Type R (/showthread.php?tid=704)
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Honda Civic Type R - Feersty - 07-17-2004
I was watching Car and Driver television today on SpikeTV and they were featuring a Mugen outfitted Honda Civic(Type R) complete with the 2.0L i-VTEC engine from the Civic Type R that puts out 240 hp and does 0-60 in 6.1 seconds. Why are these vehicles not imported to the U.S., I just am not sure exactly about this, that is why I am asking. Questions, Comments?
- Mike - 07-17-2004
It does not make business sense to cater to the enthusiast market.
- G.Irish - 07-17-2004
MichaelJComputer Wrote:It does not make business sense to cater to the enthusiast market.
Please. Both the STi and Evo are homologated specials in much the same vane as the Type-R vehicles and they're sold here. What's more is that neither Mitsubishi nor Subaru has the financial resources that Honda has yet they were able to bring their special cars at a reasonable price. On top of that, import tariffs on cars coming from Europe are higher than those coming from England (where the Civic Type-R is made).
There is more to the lack of R's than just business sense. It makes less sense to continue to sell the NSX here yet they do it. Somehow the bean counters at American Honda have gotten the upper hand over the enthusiasts. I'm sure the numbers have something to do with it but I think arrogance and stupidity are equally to blame.
The King Motorsports Civic in my opinion, is weak. They put the thing on a dyno and it was only able to muster the same hp at the wheels as the stock engine. Also, with 240 crank hp I'd like to think it'd be more than .2 seconds quicker to 60 than the RSX-S. To tell the truth I haven't been impressed with any of the Mugen project cars of late. When Car and driver tested the Mugen S2000 it put on a similarly gperformance.
- white_2kgt - 07-17-2004
G.Irish Wrote:MichaelJComputer Wrote:It does not make business sense to cater to the enthusiast market.
Please. Both the STi and Evo are homologated specials in much the same vane as the Type-R vehicles and they're sold here. What's more is that neither Mitsubishi nor Subaru has the financial resources that Honda has yet they were able to bring their special cars at a reasonable price. On top of that, import tariffs on cars coming from Europe are higher than those coming from England (where the Civic Type-R is made).
What car company was it that we were just talking about going under? Oh yea mitsu...
-c
- REED - 07-17-2004
i think they dont bring them over is just because their isnt that much of a performance difference versus the Si, and the type R would become competition for the RSX-s, the same reason for the RSX-R, it would end up being priced at like 26-27, and who is gonna pay that
- Kaan - 07-17-2004
the same people that buy used integra type Rs.... :roll:
- .RJ - 07-18-2004
piss off
- Feersty - 07-18-2004
I mean you see how many people with Civic hatches go for a look similar to those in Europe and Japan, and want to get their hands on a B18C5, so that alone should be evidence enough to bring some Civic Type R's over here. I don't think the RSX TypeS is selling that well anyways, folks are going for the RSX. Honda should send over like 300 Civic Type R's like they did with Integra Type R's in 1997 and just see what happens.
- Sijray21 - 07-18-2004
Feersty Wrote:I mean you see how many people with Civic hatches go for a look similar to those in Europe and Japan, and want to get their hands on a B18C5, so that alone should be evidence enough to bring some Civic Type R's over here. I don't think the RSX TypeS is selling that well anyways, folks are going for the RSX. Honda should send over like 300 Civic Type R's like they did with Integra Type R's in 1997 and just see what happens.
well that's another idea. If the Civic type-R was available over here the 'JDM' aftermarket (which people pay a shitload to get jdm parts) would diminish greatly. Honda may be recieving a lot of money from japanese vendors or US vendors and cusotmers from these requests. (off-the wall idea...) I also agree that they should bring over a very limited quantitiy of CTR's as a test to the market, but i really think that the Si is a smarter business decision. Less costly to make and people still want to buy a lot of them. Although i can't see how much more expensive the CTR is to make over the Si. I hear they're making the new generation of civic's soon and the new Si will be a coupe version again.
- G.Irish - 07-18-2004
theguywiththeSi Wrote:well that's another idea. If the Civic type-R was available over here the 'JDM' aftermarket (which people pay a shitload to get jdm parts) would diminish greatly. Honda may be recieving a lot of money from japanese vendors or US vendors and cusotmers from these requests. (off-the wall idea...) I also agree that they should bring over a very limited quantitiy of CTR's as a test to the market, but i really think that the Si is a smarter business decision. Less costly to make and people still want to buy a lot of them. Although i can't see how much more expensive the CTR is to make over the Si. I hear they're making the new generation of civic's soon and the new Si will be a coupe version again.
JDM parts sales are a drop in the bucket for Honda and they mean nothing for American Honda. The only major costs of the CTR over the Si is additional crash testing (because of the different ride heights), the cost of the K20A2, and some small stuff like the aero parts. Same with the DC5R. This generation of Type-R vehicles is actually less expensive for Honda to make than the previous generation (no labor intensive stuff like chassis reinforcement or port polishing).
- .RJ - 07-18-2004
Certifying (crash testing, EPA engine testing, DOT testing, etc) is not a cheap process
- Feersty - 07-18-2004
Yeah I knew emissions were a big reason, but what does it really take? A better catalytic converter?
- .RJ - 07-18-2004
I'm not talking about meeting the regulations.
The government certification tests cost money. A lot of it.
- Kaan - 07-18-2004
If honda wants to stay in the tuner market at all they need a change. the slow bus.... CTR or not... isnt selling well at all. i bet scion sells more of their little coupe jobs then honda sells slow buses. they reworked the Si with the coupe and after two years of that they bring out the mini odessy slow bus. in my opinion they need to go back to lower roof lined, sportier Si cars. Hatch or couple... just not what they have now. and dear God the CRX in 2005 rumors.... they are going to badge the "Fit" a crx.... honda is turning into a disaster.
- G.Irish - 07-18-2004
Kaan Wrote:Hatch or couple... just not what they have now. and dear God the CRX in 2005 rumors.... they are going to badge the "Fit" a crx.... honda is turning into a disaster.
I imagine the rumor of the Fit being called the CRX is just a case of people getting confused. Many have said that the Fit is sort of a spiritual sucessor to the CRX (light, cheap, fun) and some people no doubt have misinterpreted that as the Fit being called the CRX. I don't think even American Honda is that dumb (though they have surprised me).
I'll actually be very interested to see the direction Honda takes with its performance offerings in the coming years now that Takeo Fukui is at the helm(former head of HRC and heavily involved in Honda F1).
- Dave - 07-18-2004
G.Irish Wrote:I'll actually be very interested to see the direction Honda takes with its performance offerings in the coming years now that Takeo Fukui is at the helm(former head of HRC and heavily involved in Honda F1).I'll second that. I did a business analysis on Honda (imagine that, a car guy relating school projects to cars) and was quite pleased when I found out that Fukui had taken the helm).
- ButtDyno - 07-18-2004
Kaan Wrote:If honda wants to stay in the tuner market at all they need a change. the slow bus.... CTR or not... isnt selling well at all. i bet scion sells more of their little coupe jobs then honda sells slow buses. they reworked the Si with the coupe and after two years of that they bring out the mini odessy slow bus. in my opinion they need to go back to lower roof lined, sportier Si cars. Hatch or couple... just not what they have now. and dear God the CRX in 2005 rumors.... they are going to badge the "Fit" a crx.... honda is turning into a disaster.In the latest Best Motoring Int'l (VTEC Club) they had the Spoon Fit on a racetrack and really liked it, and went into detail about how stiff the chassis is, etc etc. Dunno how much the Spoon version would cost though
john
- Feersty - 07-18-2004
How much would a Civic Type R go for over here? $26,000-$27,000? How much were the Integra Type R's brand new?
- G.Irish - 07-18-2004
Its hard to say how much an EP3R would cost. The DC2R costed $2000 more over the GS-R so that would put the CTR at around $21000. You can't really go on the exchange rates with English cars because they have several quite substantial taxes in addition to the cost of the car.
I imagine Honda sold the DC2R at some sort of a loss with all of the custom stuff on it but the EP3R is not tremendously different from the Si (bigger brakes, stiffer suspension, bigger wheels, more power, 6 speed tranny, aero effects).
- Mike - 07-18-2004
Feersty Wrote:I mean you see how many people with Civic hatches go for a look similar to those in Europe and Japan, and want to get their hands on a B18C5, so that alone should be evidence enough to bring some Civic Type R's over here. I don't think the RSX TypeS is selling that well anyways, folks are going for the RSX. Honda should send over like 300 Civic Type R's like they did with Integra Type R's in 1997 and just see what happens.
I'll say it again... Catering to the "tuner" crowd makes little to no business sense.