+- Madison Motorsports (https://forum.mmsports.org)
+-- Forum: Madison Motorsports (https://forum.mmsports.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Lounge (https://forum.mmsports.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Thread: Why do dealerships lose/destroy vehicle records? (/showthread.php?tid=7005)
Why do dealerships lose/destroy vehicle records? - BLINGMW - 02-20-2008
I know a few of you have worked in this industry, so maybe you can explain it to me. When I buy a used vehicle from private party, there's usually some service records, receipts they kept, something. But when a vehicle goes through a trade in, auction, dealership, it seems like this precious paper trail is always gone.
Do they intentionally destroy these records? And if so, does it happen at the auction? At the dealer? And exactly why? Are the obligated to protect the identity of the previous owner? Records almost always increase the value of the vehicle IMHO. I mean, damn, I can't even tell if the oil has ever been changed, let alone other fluids, or other parts replaced that might increase the resale value.
- ViPER1313 - 02-20-2008
When my roommate bought the SHO from Woodstock Garage it still had the papers in the glovebox....
IDK why they are usually missing though.
- JackoliciousLegs - 02-20-2008
They don't want anything incriminating showing up. More importantly, most people don't care about a service history. They'd trust a mechanic looking at it more. That's why every dealer has an 11,000 point presale checkup.
There are a ton of other reasons...
-takes too long to deal with
-people can fake that shit (then someone can claim false advertising)
-does that affect value?
etc.
- Evan - 02-20-2008
JackoliciousLegs Wrote:They don't want anything incriminating showing up. More importantly, most people don't care about a service history. They'd trust a mechanic looking at it more. That's why every dealer has an 11,000 point presale checkup.+1
There are a ton of other reasons...
-takes too long to deal with
-people can fake that shit (then someone can claim false advertising)
-does that affect value?
etc.
If there are service records, and conversely lack-of-service records, a customer could try to hold the dealership to those records so it becomes a liability.
- NTIman - 02-20-2008
I know at the dealer i work at, i think they threw away a ton of records like 5 years ago, because they were old, no one customers had the cars anymore, and it took up a lot of room in filing cabinets.
As far as records on the computyer, i'm not sure, i think we use different software than they used to, so i doubt if theres anything too old on there.
- Ryan T - 02-20-2008
I asked the guys at the dealership I'm at now and they said they throw them away to try to get customers to continue to get service work done at the dealership they bought the car from. They don't want you to buy a car at A.B. motors and then give you a bunch of service receipts from C.D. motors stating the price they charge for service, what their services entail, etc.
- Steve85 - 02-20-2008
Typically when someone trades a car in they don't pass those service records along with the car. In reality, the dealer could not care less to see them. The car will be valued based on some basic criteria and an offer is made. If it is accepted and the dealer takes the car in trade it is then looked at by techs to determine if it should be wholesaled or not.
A lot went into the determination of whether to put the car on the lot or wholesale it out. Either way, the only claim to maintenance the dealer can stand by is what THEY did. 100 receipts from joes oil means nothing.
At the Land Rover dealer in Encino, CA we did provide service records if requested as most owners did have their car serviced there. At the Chevy dealer, most people do not return for anything other than warranty work so there are no good records.
- BLAIR - 02-20-2008
I know for a fact you can pretty much get any service records, as long as the work was performed at a dealer.
My freind works for lexus and with the VIN only he can pull every single time it was in the dealer, all the way down to tech notes. He has done this for both of my lexus'.
I also know that with any chrysler vin I can find the total history on the car.
I think the main reason dealers say they dont have them is because they dont want to bother pulling them and printing them for you.
LEGALLY,,, i think dealers have to keep all records at least 5 years back for any istance they may be audited or something.
- Ginger - 02-20-2008
You can get the dealer reported history... but there's often a lot more to a car than that.
- BLINGMW - 02-21-2008
I'll start with Jack's just because it was pretty complete.... Jack, do these have any basis in first hand knowledge, or are these just your ideas? Not to be rude, but I really want to know the answer(s), not just some possibilities! (I can think of those myself). :wink:
-They don't want anything incriminating showing up
So throw away the incriminating ones? Or, better yet, don't lie to the customer?
-They'd trust a mechanic looking at it more
You're saying most buyers trust the dealer, whom they're buying from, to inspect the car and tell them it's "ok" rather than years of service history from multiple sources indicating the replacement of many parts that an inspection wouldn't discover? I would HOPE, that even a person of average IQ could understand than more information from more sources is better than less from only one.
-takes too long to deal with
Maybe my question wasn't clear, because some other people are also talking about "records" like in a computer or filing cabinets something. I'm talking about a folder of papers in the glovebox. Don't know how "leaving the papers in the glovebox" costs the dealer any time.
-people can fake that shit (then someone can claim false advertising)
This might be a concern in today's litigious society, but the dealer wouldn't be advertising anything. "Here's the peices of paper, that we cannot verify, that came from the previous owner. We didn't even look at them, because we trust our 11,000 point inspection more". I really don't think (really hope!) that they have any liability as they've made no claims.
-does that affect value?
If the records indicate the car is a lemon, or has a blown motor or something, yeah, it should affect value, and the dealer shouldn't have taken it. Otherwise, 95% of the time, at least to me, records increase the value, even if they're far from complete. I HOPE it's had a bunch of shit replaced already!
Ryan T Wrote:I asked the guys at the dealership I'm at now and they said they throw them away to try to get customers to continue to get service work done at the dealership they bought the car from. They don't want you to buy a car at A.B. motors and then give you a bunch of service receipts from C.D. motors stating the price they charge for service, what their services entail, etc.
Thanks for asking, that sounds more like it!
- Dave - 02-21-2008
I really have no idea why no dealership ever seems to provide papers or give a crap about it, but I do have an interesting addition.
When I bought my truck, one of the things I asked was if there were any service records. Dude said no, there weren't any.
Well, when I picked it up, I discovered that not only did it have the nice little case that came with the truck, but it had all the manuals (general truck, diesel engine, 4x4, warranty) and the original reciept of sale. Now, he was right that it didn't have any service records, but it seems to me like it would have been worth his time to check and discover that it was coming with some paperwork...
- JackoliciousLegs - 02-21-2008
BLINGMW Wrote:I'll start with Jack's just because it was pretty complete.... Jack, do these have any basis in first hand knowledge, or are these just your ideas?Two summers at crapmax.
- REED - 02-21-2008
not to send this thread off topic, but this is somewhat related. How do those of you that do your own work, cover that if you want to sell the car.
if you want to sell a car and you tell me "I changed the oil every 3000 miles" - thats terrific but receipts saying you bought a case of oil doesn't really mean much of anything.
- Dave - 02-21-2008
I have a detailed record that gets updated pretty much every time I touch a car. Yeah, it could be faked, but would I really go through the hassle of writing 10 pages of documentation with the date, mileage, and exactly what was done to the car, or would I just say I don't have any records?
- BLAIR - 02-21-2008
asteele2 Wrote:You can get the dealer reported history... but there's often a lot more to a car than that.
yea.... anything that was not a dealer repair is not shown is a dealer history.. there is no way for the factory to know what is done outside a dealership.
AKA. i have cars that have been in an accident or wrecked but because i did not go through insurance the CARFAX is totally clean on the car. that may not be the truth but carfax will show a totally clean carfax on a car that has damn near been totalled
EXAMPLES...... i know of a new 996 turbo that had a factory road and tow coverage... when it was dropped off at the dealer it was backed into the service bay.... the roof was way to low and the new 996t was smashed into the drop off bay roof. Porsche, after a fight covered the cost of fix and an additional payment on top of that to cover the disvalue the car would undertake after the "accident" Overall. the car had a clean carfax and was sold with a clean title. Would the 2nd costomer ever know about this???? probably not... but I sure as hell would want to know id my new "old" 1 year old 996 turbo had major damage.. but this customer will and wont ever know what happened.