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+--- Thread: Just in case this ever happens to you (/showthread.php?tid=7000)
Just in case this ever happens to you - HAULN-SS - 02-18-2008
So this morning, I stopped and got gas which was about 45$ for a fillup. The pump says "pay at the pump or inside first." So i used my card at the pump, went inside to get a drink and sandwich and the gas station owner says "Sorry, 5$ minimum"
and I said "yeah, i'm covered, i just spent almost 50$ at the pump"....
"sorry, 5$ minimum"
So I tell them to forget it, left my shit laying there and left.
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There is the first place on Visa's website about minimum amounts, and the second place is in the merchant account rules for business.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/rules_for_visa_merchants.pdf">http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/ ... chants.pdf</a><!-- m -->
page 9.
So now I'm reporting them to Visa, and hopefully they lose their merchant account, or get fined, or something else. If they get to keep their account, I'm going to stop in there and buy a pack of gum on my card every day for a week.
- BLINGMW - 02-18-2008
Not the first place I've seen do that.... and yeah, it's against every credit card vendors rules AFAIK. Some of the big truck gas stations also charge less for cash then they do credit, I don't know how they get away with that either unless they have some special permission or something.
I don't really even know why the stores do it, card company takes X % of each charge, there's no base fee per charge. To them, it'd be the same $ out of their pocket if you charged 10 $5 charges or 1 $50 charge. I don't get it.
- HAULN-SS - 02-18-2008
BLINGMW Wrote:Not the first place I've seen do that.... and yeah, it's against every credit card vendors rules AFAIK. Some of the big truck gas stations also charge less for cash then they do credit, I don't know how they get away with that either unless they have some special permission or something.
I don't really even know why the stores do it, card company takes X % of each charge, there's no base fee per charge. To them, it'd be the same $ out of their pocket if you charged 10 $5 charges or 1 $50 charge. I don't get it.
they are allowed to give discounts for cash, they just cant surcharge, or impose minimums for card usage.
There are two kinds of merchant accounts, flat fee, and percentage based. The flat fees are the ones that cause them to lose out - because it takes say $.80 right off the top or whatever. I used to have a merchant account a long time ago.
- BLINGMW - 02-18-2008
ah ok, I didn't know there were flat fee ones, all the small businesses I've worked at payed %.
It's weird you say they can discount for cash, what's the difference between a surcharge for the card or discount for cash? Seems effectively the same.
- HAULN-SS - 02-18-2008
"Always treat Visa transactions like any other transaction; that is, you may not impose any surcharge on a Visa transaction. You may, however, offer a discount for cash transactions, provided that the offer is clearly disclosed to customers and the cash price is presented as a discount from the standard price charged for all other forms of payment."
I'm guessing that because it must be advertised, and that it says ALL other forms of payment, not just credit card.
- BLINGMW - 02-18-2008
hmm. Alrighty then! I had misunderstood that. I don't know why they bother with that rule then. I mean, you put a big sign outside that says "X price, cash" and then when you use credit and get charged more, oh, that's not a surcharge, that's the regular price, the cash price was a discounted price. Semantics really.
Well, tell us (me) if you get Visa to do anything about that place, it's amusing.
- Feersty - 02-18-2008
Does this rule apply at clubs and bars that sometimes require a $10 minimum to use your credit card? That is why I try and use cash as much as possible.
- HAULN-SS - 02-18-2008
BLINGMW Wrote:hmm. Alrighty then! I had misunderstood that. I don't know why they bother with that rule then. I mean, you put a big sign outside that says "X price, cash" and then when you use credit and get charged more, oh, that's not a surcharge, that's the regular price, the cash price was a discounted price. Semantics really.
Well, tell us (me) if you get Visa to do anything about that place, it's amusing.
I guess if you use a check, or MO or something else to pay though, they'd have to charge you the same cost as the Visa...I don't really know. either way, i'd be more accepting of a surcharge than a minimum payment.
I'll let ya know how it turns out.
- HAULN-SS - 02-18-2008
Feersty Wrote:Does this rule apply at clubs and bars that sometimes require a $10 minimum to use your credit card? That is why I try and use cash as much as possible.
I dont think the rules are specific to any kind of place.
- JustinG - 02-18-2008
Feersty Wrote:Does this rule apply at clubs and bars that sometimes require a $10 minimum to use your credit card? That is why I try and use cash as much as possible.
I think the bar thing is to save the bartender time, so they aren't running back and forth to the credit card machine and are making drinks instead. To try and keep people from putting one beer on their card every time they get one instead of just starting a tab.
- John - 02-18-2008
So you all know, vendors negotiate their fee structure at the time they establish a contract with Visa based on volume and dollar packages. Most businesses pay between 1.5-3% for Visa and Mastercard, ~4% for AMEX, and 6+% for Discover. Places like Walmart pay a flat fee per month based on their volume. Out here, you'll find that many gas stations have cash v. credit prices. Others like ARCO charge you a flat 45 cent fee if you use card.
Now, where it's a scam is if you use a debit card, as the ATM network does not charge any fees.
- white_2kgt - 02-18-2008
John Wrote:Now, where it's a scam is if you use a debit card, as the ATM network does not charge any fees.
if you enter your pin, correct, no fees, if you use your debit card that has a VISA logo and hit credit then yes, they do charge fees
- Apoc - 02-18-2008
I remember back in the day there were always credit and cash prices for gas. They've pretty much done away with them because everyone uses cards anyway but there was definitely a difference when I was growing up.