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My First Media/TOV Track Day and a Day at the Dragon - G.Irish - 06-02-2007
So last Tuesday I flew on down to Atlanta to meet up with the Temple of VTEC team for a track day at Talladega GP and a day at the Tail of the Dragon with a few Honda press cars.
I got in Tuesday night, picked up a rental car (all they had for me was a PT Cruiser *bleh) and set off for Alabama. We woke up bright and early Wednesday morning and arrived at Talladega GP at about 8 or 9.
Talladega GP is a pretty short circuit (about the length of Jefferson at Summit) but is laid out a bit like CMP. Its flat but has cambered turns, and has 3 good hairpin turns of varying radii. Not a very stop and go course but it was short enough that you could overheat brakes fairly quickly...
The cars we had for the test were TOV's Project Si, a Si sedan, TL Type-S, S2000, and a Si coupe. Meeting us at the track was a Honda Manufacturing employee (Bradley was his name) who helped build and race the One Lap of America turbo Odyssey.
I didn't take a bunch of pics, mostly because we had a SLR and a bunch of video cameras for that task but here are a few:
![[Image: l_6e262f32574129ddcfca444598e361c5.jpg]](http://a430.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/57/l_6e262f32574129ddcfca444598e361c5.jpg)
We had lipstick cams for front, rear, and side shots and some in-car cams for uh, in-car shots
![[Image: l_53b8e0943787f0a3b722402b723a9ac8.jpg]](http://a145.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/61/l_53b8e0943787f0a3b722402b723a9ac8.jpg)
The One Lap of America Odyssey (all for you Jeff). Yes that's Imola Orange but no that's not carbon fiber on the hood. It has a GT35 turbo on it and some custom welded intake stuff and odds and ends. I got a ride in it and it was pretty damned fast, maybe around the same level of speed as a STi in the higher gears. In lower gears it would spin up a bit.
![[Image: l_912ddd52660db87fa185a843c8f7bbba.jpg]](http://a179.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/52/l_912ddd52660db87fa185a843c8f7bbba.jpg)
![[Image: l_2ce24fdccc619dca710b52f70dba79b8.jpg]](http://a665.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/61/l_2ce24fdccc619dca710b52f70dba79b8.jpg)
Notice the AIM dash, manual tranny, and...APC seats (apparently they threw them in there because they were cheap).
![[Image: l_a1596d90b52b65f754fb2938291c1716.jpg]](http://a863.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/28/l_a1596d90b52b65f754fb2938291c1716.jpg)
I'll post some quick driving impressions and part two with Tail of the Dragon laterz. I need to get some errands done.
- Hunter - 06-02-2007
Very cool, I'll look forward to reading your impressions of all the cars.
And Jeff, that's your goal. Anything less and I consider your van a failure.
![[Image: fail.jpg]](http://lolcats2.com/full/fail.jpg)
Sorry, I can't help it with the cat pictures.
- Feersty - 06-02-2007
Damn G, you got the hookup.
- ScottyB - 06-02-2007
cool! that minivan is really pretty sweet. manual conversion? hot!
Q: whats the best thing to come out of Alabama?
A: I-20
hoho! sorry i was waiting for a chance to use that.
- Sijray21 - 06-03-2007
this is awesome G - looking forward for pictures!
- John - 06-03-2007
Seriously - I don't think there is any redeeming quality of Alabama... other than Auburn girls and Barber Motorsports Park...
- Feersty - 06-03-2007
Gulf Shores is beautiful.
- .RJ - 06-03-2007
Feersty Wrote:Gulf Shores is beautiful.
:?:
- Ginger - 06-03-2007
I believe he was saying that the shores on the Gulf of Mexico are nice - a redeemng feature, if you will. And, of course, part of Alabama's southern border is on the gulf. It wasn't exactly proper engrish, though... and kind of out in left field.
- .RJ - 06-04-2007
asteele2 Wrote:I believe he was saying that the shores on the Gulf of Mexico are nice - a redeemng feature, if you will.
Except the track isnt anywhere near the coastline.
- CaptainHenreh - 06-04-2007
asteele2 Wrote:... and kind of out in left field.
Or, considering the poster, perfectly normal.
I'm beginning to think that Feersty is in fact deceased, and has been replaced with a Taiwanese spambot.
Hello, my name are Feersty Rob and would me to explain like for how ancient method by which your penile girth enlargened can be safe herbal cocktail.
- Ginger - 06-04-2007
You won $10,000!
I didn't really think that "any redeeming quality" meant that he had to pick one out that had somthing to do with the track.
Am I defending Feersty? The universe has tilted on it's side and started spitting out flying toasters.
- Sijray21 - 06-04-2007
John Wrote:I don't think there is any redeeming quality of Alabama... other than Auburn girls and Barber Motorsports Park...
response
Feersty Wrote:Gulf Shores is beautiful.
Gulf Shores is a city in Alabama
asteele2 Wrote:I didn't really think that "any redeeming quality" meant that he had to pick one out that had somthing to do with the track.
+1
Feersty just needs to learn how to quote properly - otherwise everyone is confused as usual
- HAULN-SS - 06-04-2007
maybe he doesnt believe in using the quote feature..i was like that for a while
- Maengelito - 06-04-2007
HAULN-SS Wrote:maybe he doesnt believe in using the quote feature..i was like that for a while
and its gotten so much better since you started
- HAULN-SS - 06-04-2007
O RLY?
- G.Irish - 06-05-2007
Whew, finally coming back to this. Forgive me if there are typos but I've got some other pressing things to attend to this week.
So I chatted with the Honda employees a bit at Talladega GP and had some pretty fun/interesting conversations.
Honda guy: So what do you guys think about the ASC?
Me: *grimacing and growling*
Honda guy: Yeah we don't like it either.
We talked quite a bit about the ASC and they pretty much had all the same feelings we had about what the car should and shouldn't be. Apparently this sentiment goes all the way up into some of the executive ranks.
The VP at the Alabama plant apparently knows the Large Project Leader for the ASC. While in Cali for an event he[the VP] tracked down the ASC LPL gave him an earful about the car and how it should stick the formula of the NSX and that he was very dissapointed. Suffice it to say, there's good deal of internal dissent over the ASC.
Another cool story was that that the Odyssey plant president had bought an Exige and sent it to Prototype Racing to have a K20 put in it. Regretfully just as the car was getting finished he got reassigned to Japan.
I'm hoping we can do a TOV story with the Prototype Racing guy since they are just down the street from the dyno business one of the main TOV guys owns.
The Dragon
After the day at Talladega GP we drove back to Atlanta (where the owner lives) and did some maintenance on the cars. We had to bleed the brakes on a few of them and we chewed through the pads on both Civic Si's.
The next day we embarked on the 3-4 hour drive to the (in)famous Tail of the Dragon. The other TOV guys were kind enough to swap cars with me and let me drive the TL-S and Si Sedan for the trip up there rather than the PT Cruiser (which had support vehicle duty).
I decided I wanted to drive the Si sedan for the first part of the day at the Dragon since it was much nimbler and fun to drive than the bigger (but faster) TL-S.
Not having seen the road before I didn't push too hard through the first half of pass. Left, right, left, right, hairpin, esse, hairpin, right, right, left...it was absolutely fabolous. It was like an alphabet soup with just 'S's and 'U's. As I got a bit into a rhythm I felt less scared and really, really started to enjoy myself. Surely if there really is a Flying Spaghetti Monster, he crafted this marvelous road in the spitting image of his noodly appendage.
Jeff was ahead of me in the Project Si and cleared off to the distance without much effort. The TL-S kept up with me pretty well until I started to get into my rhythm and pulled away a bit. I still felt like I was being pretty conservative since I halfway expected someone to cross over into my lane every time I came around a blind corner.
Luckily there wasn't much traffic at all, but we saw plenty of stupidity and close calls. Several of the sport bike guys we're making some pretty big mistakes while coming by our spot, one guy almost rear ending another rider, and another one ran so wide he almost went off the road into a ditch on the opposite side of the road.
My only real regret (for both Talladega GP and the Dragon) was that none of the cars had proper brake pads. On one pass I was truly not trying to brake too hard and as soon as I came to a stop I was engulfed in a cloud of smoke. The same happened when I took out the TL-S for the first time at Talladega GP. Really I knew beforehand that this would be a problem with cars with stock brake pads but we just didn't get that handled for this event. I'm sure next time all the cars we bring for a test will have Carbotechs on 'em.
I decided beforehand that I was going to take it easy and not succumb to the deadly aroma of the red mist and I didn't. Having suffered the ignominy of crashing someone else's car in the past was a big motivator, not to mention the fact that I didn't wanna be 'that guy' on my first press event. I kinda felt like I drove like a pussy but whatever.
The Tree of Shame
![[Image: l_aeb7dfe7cb89cd574298fabc1fb99a73.jpg]](http://a940.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/34/l_aeb7dfe7cb89cd574298fabc1fb99a73.jpg)
![[Image: l_9a025089edeab7c86fe2396ea75b5125.jpg]](http://a62.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/58/l_9a025089edeab7c86fe2396ea75b5125.jpg)
Presumably the rider's severed legs were disposed of after the stench became too unbearable, even for the Tree of Shame. His boots were left as a warning to those who would succeed him.
![[Image: l_3352b07234995a383c958bc0dfc42e54.jpg]](http://a157.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/25/l_3352b07234995a383c958bc0dfc42e54.jpg)
![[Image: l_a901fc617851c34189e78fe7812bf0ce.jpg]](http://a911.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/19/l_a901fc617851c34189e78fe7812bf0ce.jpg)
![[Image: l_f47ed0a42daed45231305c27db559810.jpg]](http://a865.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/47/l_f47ed0a42daed45231305c27db559810.jpg)
It was like we were hiding in the bushes trying to film lions in the Serengeti or something. I suppose we were filming something just as dangerous; the North American Squid.
![[Image: l_e238098c0448255aa0c4dae3dc4c8fa2.jpg]](http://a99.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/39/l_e238098c0448255aa0c4dae3dc4c8fa2.jpg)
Getting the PT's tire pressures right before a mad fast canyon run y0
![[Image: l_4e2abbdfbd0036e680f3be58ca4a26b0.jpg]](http://a729.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/34/l_4e2abbdfbd0036e680f3be58ca4a26b0.jpg)
Driving Impressions
Civic Si Sedan
Having driven most of the Honda sport compacts from the ITR's to Si's I had a pretty good yardstick with which to measure the latest in the family. On all counts this car is a noticeable improvement on its predecessors, only really losing out(barely) to the ITR in handling and fun factor.
Everyone has seen the interior so I won't go much into that, except to say that I found the two tiered dash pretty intuitive. The seats were pretty nice too, but not as good as the ITR's seats.
The K20Z3 in the Si is a pretty darned good powerplant. It doesn't quite have that change in acceleration you felt with the B-series or even the F20 in the S2000 because it just has a broader spread of power. If you're in the wrong gear obviously you'll feel it but its pretty flexible.
Handling wise the first thing I noticed is that the chassis is much stiffer than previous fwd Hondas and it communicates more to the butt gyro than the old ones did. Kind of makes the ol' GS-R look flaccid by comparison. The other big difference over cars like the previous Si's, the RSX, and GS-R was the limited slip, which of course made a world of difference. IT took about half of the frustration out of fwd.
Horsing it around Talladega GP I felt like I could put the car where I wanted. On the Dragon it felt even better because it gave me a lot of confidence going into the turns, even though I had never seen the road before and I was still awfully concerned about the brakes.
Other than the brake pads (a no-brainer) I'd say all the car would need is a rear swaybar to suit my needs. It was a really well put together car and reflects that American Honda had the right guys working on it (instead of those idiots who made the current Euro CTR). The only other thing it would need is more power to keep up with the Jones'
TOV Project Civic Si*
Really the whole day at Talladega GP I just didn't feel that comfortable with the cars because of the brakes. But the one car that felt very right from the start was the Project Si.
The mods on the car included Progress Shocks/Springs (I forget the rate and all that), intake, header, exhaust, cams, carbon fiber hood and trunk (overall weight savins = 100 lbs), and Nitto NT-01 tires. The car was making about 220 whp so that works out to roughly 240 crank hp or so. For some reason it needed to be retuned because it was making more power before then with another header on it.
Anyway the car really and truly felt great. Sure footed, power like a S2000 but with a better torque curve, and a communicative chassis. But like the Si Sedan this car needed a rear swaybar to make it a bit more neutral. At the Dragon this car was a blast, but of course I couldn't really explore how fast it could go as I didn't want to end up on Killboy.com with the car parked into a tree or mountain face.
For a naturally-aspirated fwd the Si has a lot of potential, much more so than the car it replaced. Would I buy one (in its price range)?
Its a really good car and I don't think I'd be unhappy with it, but there are just other things I'd rather do with the money. If I needed a sedan though this would be near the top of the list along with the Mazdaspeed 3 and maybe a used E46 BMW or WRX.
*TOV was given a pre-production Civic Si last year by Honda so they could tune it and use it for ongoing features on the site. TOV has to give it back in August though.
TL Type-S
The first thing I noticed about the TL-S after getting out of the Si sedan is that the seats are a bit hard. They're leather and all but they just weren't as comfy as they should have been. They were about as hard as the 600RR seat.
Anyway the TL has the typical hot Honda things going for itl, great shifter, good turn in, and a stiff chassis. The thing it has that most Hondas don't is plenty of torque. It gets up and rolling pretty quickly and smoothly and easily walked away from the other cars on the straights at Talladega GP.
Unfortunately it falls down on the suspension. The TL-S is a big, heavy car and it needs some pretty firm springs and thick swaybars to keep it from feeling that way. While I was driving it at Talladega it had a lot more body roll than I would've wanted and along with the fact that its weight overwhelmed its brakes faster than any of the other cars, I really didn't have much fun in it. So much so that I didn't bother driving it at the Dragon.
The other thing I didn't like about it is that the clutch engagement just felt weird. It was really difficult to be smooth with it for some reason. The other TOV guys said the same.
I guess I can't be too hard on the car as its a luxo barge and maybe it really comes to life with some suspension mods but it wasn't really my cup of tea.
- G.Irish - 06-06-2007
Oh yeah, another one of my evil schemes that came to fruition last week was the first edition of the TOV Racing Roundup. I decided to do a biweekly article about Honda Racing activities around the world that should include some exclusive interviews starting with the next edition (Peter Cunningham of Realtime).
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- CaptainHenreh - 06-06-2007
So wow, 200WHP Civic SI.
Do they have any solid performance numbers on that? 0-60, 1/4, etc.
Also, since when do TL's come with 3 pedals?!? I love the way they look, but always decided that the TSX had no balls and the TL was an automatic only. Wicked!
Sounds like you had an awesome time, I want to run the Dragon someday.
- WRXtranceformed - 06-06-2007
Awesome write-up man, I really felt like you put me in the driver's seat!!
I'd love a quick jaunt in a TL-S. They look badass and definitely have plenty of power.