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+--- Thread: No more traction control in F1! (/showthread.php?tid=5723)
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No more traction control in F1! - G.Irish - 03-30-2007
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Starting in 2008 there'll be no more TC in F1. Of course the first thing that comes to mind is, "Yeah right, that is unenforceable." And it would be, but F1 is moving to a spec ECU next year. So unless the teams can figure out some super clever way to mask TC in some other part of the car, TC will truly be gone!
I am pretty stoked because this will really separate the men from the boys in driving ability, especially in the rain. It'll be bad news for some of the more hamfisted drivers like Rubens Barrichello but a god send to the super smooth guys like Raikkonen and Button.
Don't know if it will make the racing closer or not though.
- PDenbigh - 03-30-2007
Do they have ABS? If so, will they still have ABS?
(I'm looking for a way to make myself feel better that my 21 year old race car doesn't have ABS :-) )
- G.Irish - 03-30-2007
Nope, no ABS either.
I will say though that in some ways TC in F1 is good since it pushes the technology along. I know for sure that the F1 derived traction control system [called the mannetino, it is the user adjustable TC system that's tied into the cars electronic diff] in the newer Ferraris has definitely saved some drivers' bacon. At Homestead there was a guy in a 430 spider who got the car sideways coming out of the last turn and never lifted off the throttle while the car tank slapped. He was heading towards the wall but someone he didn't crash. One of the techs was like, "That mannetino saved his ass."
Anyway companies will still push TC anyway so I guess its no biggie. Its still allowed in Le Mans and Moto GP too.
- Mike - 03-30-2007
wow... awesome... these guys have tons of skill, but i think the disparity between f1 drivers will only be magnified by this. some may not look forward to that, but i do. i like heroes...
- PGK - 03-30-2007
G.Irish Wrote:Its still allowed in Moto GP.
And yet, the only motorcycle manufacturer offering it on a production motorcycle has no involvement with GP's....
- ScottyB - 03-30-2007
nothin but good news!
- Ryan T - 03-30-2007
This is going to be awesome. I can't wait to see how much effect this has on various drivers performance.
- G.Irish - 03-30-2007
PGK Wrote:Yeah I don't understand that. I guess its a price thing since the TC on even production based race bikes is pretty expensive. Its not like cars where you can simply reduce the throttle (or selectively activate the brakes) when wheelspin is detected. Its gotta take lean angle into account and it has to be a much more fine-tuned and precise system to prevent crashes rather than cause more.G.Irish Wrote:Its still allowed in Moto GP.
And yet, the only motorcycle manufacturer offering it on a production motorcycle has no involvement with GP's....
I have to think its coming pretty soon though, especially with the power the 1000's are making. Apparently the Ducati 1098 already has a stub built into the ECU to add traction control later. I think I came across that in Bike or PB, I'll have to look it up.
- white_2kgt - 03-30-2007
PDenbigh Wrote:Do they have ABS? If so, will they still have ABS?
(I'm looking for a way to make myself feel better that my 21 year old race car doesn't have ABS :-) )
I'm telling you man, we can fix that...
- PDenbigh - 03-30-2007
white_2kgt Wrote:PDenbigh Wrote:Do they have ABS? If so, will they still have ABS?
(I'm looking for a way to make myself feel better that my 21 year old race car doesn't have ABS :-) )
I'm telling you man, we can fix that...
I'll put it on my list. Right after new shocks, mods for proper alignment, better brake MC, paint, and megasquirt ;-).
- BLINGMW - 03-30-2007
bah, you don't want ABS on your list at all! I always loved that my m10 didn't have it. Forces you to learn dammit! :wink:
- PDenbigh - 03-30-2007
G.Irish Wrote:Nope, no ABS either.
Yay! More multi-million dollar 200mph sleds turning into piles of rubbish!
- WRXtranceformed - 03-30-2007
That rule is going to separate the men from the boys... and the alive from the dead. hah.... I would be scared shitless to drive a car like that how you have to drive it at that level with no traction control and no ABS.
- BLINGMW - 03-30-2007
I would HOPE that F1 drivers know how to freakin threshold brake. Now, obviously, they have to do it at like 5 times the speed we do, but that's their problem. :lol:
- G.Irish - 03-30-2007
I think ABS has been outlawed for a few years so they've been getting along without it but TC is going to be a much more dramatic change. I wish they were still running the 1000+ hp 3.0L V10's but with about 800 hp on tap the cars are still going to be a handful to drive without electronic aids.
Of course, I wonder if someone is going to figure out a way to cheat and use some sort of mechanical traction control.
- BLINGMW - 03-30-2007
electronic aids? What a scary world we live in. Be safe guys.
- .RJ - 03-30-2007
BLINGMW Wrote:electronic aids? What a scary world we live in. Be safe guys.
The only thing that needs an electronic aid around here is Derek's keyboard.
- HAULN-SS - 03-30-2007
With me around, at least your mother doesnt need an electronic aid!
- HAULN-SS - 03-30-2007
I had to come back to this to laugh..haha!
and as a side note, i hardly posted anything this week
- PGK - 03-30-2007
G.Irish Wrote:PGK Wrote:Yeah I don't understand that. I guess its a price thing since the TC on even production based race bikes is pretty expensive. Its not like cars where you can simply reduce the throttle (or selectively activate the brakes) when wheelspin is detected. Its gotta take lean angle into account and it has to be a much more fine-tuned and precise system to prevent crashes rather than cause more.G.Irish Wrote:Its still allowed in Moto GP.
And yet, the only motorcycle manufacturer offering it on a production motorcycle has no involvement with GP's....
I have to think its coming pretty soon though, especially with the power the 1000's are making. Apparently the Ducati 1098 already has a stub built into the ECU to add traction control later. I think I came across that in Bike or PB, I'll have to look it up.
yeah, I read that in PB (also, datalogging as an option via USB).
Actually, lean angle isn't really a consideration. The only sensors it looks at are the wheel speed sensors, and it sends signals based on that to the ECU to retard ignition and fuel in a progressively until wheelspin is reduced. It's a pretty 'soft' system, to reduce the chance of a highside, but at that point you're probably fucked anyways.