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+--- Thread: Sharing is caring/Alumni-Current student relations (/showthread.php?tid=4667)
Sharing is caring/Alumni-Current student relations - Andy - 08-24-2006
Hey guys,
There's been some scattered conversations/posts about Alumni/Current Student relations.
How about every contributes their thoughts/concerns in this thread and see if we can't all resolve some of the points of contention.
Personally, I would enjoy meeting some of the new members as well as some of the orginal members that I don't know so well. I think I can see some of the frustration of members who feel like the Alums aren't as welcoming at track events while alums feel like they're being pushed out of the club that they care deeply about. Since I know that neither perspective is true, lets try to work out some of the misunderstandings.
- Goodspeed - 08-24-2006
Well....I applaud you for taking the innitiative and posting this, its probably something that needs to come out in the open sooner or later, hopefully it'll stay clean and on track as I know both groups of members have their valid concerns
Bottom line is I think members should be allowed to enjoy the club in the way that they want. This club is about cars and motorsports, but more than that its about the people and having fun. I personally have no interest YET in tracking a daily driven car. I'm perfectly happy going to meetings and get togethers and documenting our activities in photo and video (a hobby MM has helped me pick up). I hope to someday get out there with people around the track and I find it very cool. You'll notice that everyone on here who regularly goes to the track has some sort of backup vehicle, whether it be a truck or a bike or another car, while current students have their one car and every one of them has mentioned how they aren't comfortable tracking their daily driven cars they've put so much time and money into. I think thats something that should be taken into account and respected.
As far as relations are concerned, well I think the both groups can do a better job of getting to know one another. I mentioned earlier about making a forum or maybe even an entire section of MMsports.org for the Alumni members so they can post up who they are and what they've done in MM. We really need to put faces to names here on the boards more than ever.
- Jewels - 08-24-2006
Andy, I think is a really good idea. I know that a lot of the current students dont' entirely understand how important the alumni support is for this club. This is these guys baby. They have seen it from its beginning and its hard to just turn your back on that, so they haven't. I think that the GRM challenge has drawn a huge line in the sand between both groups though. I would like to see more students at track events. But I'd also like to see everybody hanging out too. We all had a great time when we went to Ham's at VIR, I realize that no students were there, but if something like that would happen when students are there, then maybe we could all get to know each other.
- PDenbigh - 08-24-2006
In another thread, Maeng summed up my thoughts nicely:
Maengelito Wrote:i think of it more as a motorsport club with college roots, then a college club. thats what makes MM unique and thats what makes us better than the other JMU clubs. and i really really really really really hope that current students take as much pride and are as involved when they get out of school.
- Maengelito - 08-24-2006
Goodspeed Wrote:Well....I applaud you for taking the innitiative and posting this, its probably something that needs to come out in the open sooner or later, hopefully it'll stay clean and on track as I know both groups of members have their valid concerns
Bottom line is I think members should be allowed to enjoy the club in the way that they want. This club is about cars and motorsports, but more than that its about the people and having fun. I personally have no interest YET in tracking a daily driven car. I'm perfectly happy going to meetings and get togethers and documenting our activities in photo and video (a hobby MM has helped me pick up). I hope to someday get out there with people around the track and I find it very cool. You'll notice that everyone on here who regularly goes to the track has some sort of backup vehicle, whether it be a truck or a bike or another car, while current students have their one car and every one of them has mentioned how they aren't comfortable tracking their daily driven cars they've put so much time and money into. I think thats something that should be taken into account and respected.
As far as relations are concerned, well I think the both groups can do a better job of getting to know one another. I mentioned earlier about making a forum or maybe even an entire section of MMsports.org for the Alumni members so they can post up who they are and what they've done in MM. We really need to put faces to names here on the boards more than ever.
i've got my thoughts on this, just dont have time right this moment to get into it. however, we all had just one car starting out. we also didnt just jump the gun and drive our car on track as the first time ever goin to the track. i know many of us spent a few events or even a few years before even getting out on track. when i say that i want current students to come out to the track, i mean physically being at the track, interacting with other members, seeing how operations work and getting to know the racing community. this has fostered our relationship with nasa-ma and hopefully it will continue to. if a current student doesnt like being at the track, thats fine, i cant make them come. but i ask that everyone with interest in this club come atleast once before saying they dont wanna do it. more on this later tonight when i get back home
Re: Sharing is caring/Alumni-Current student relations - white_2kgt - 08-24-2006
Andy Wrote:...the Alums aren't as welcoming at track events...
How is this possible? I've been to every VIR and SummitPt NASA weekend, what current students even showed up and how were we 'unwelcoming'?
Who could be scared of this group,
http://static.flickr.com/70/203340522_d3c9244b9e_b.jpg
and personally I haven't felt pushed out by anyone, not really sure how one could feel 'pushed out' anyway, but I'm not in the 'burg all that much anymore.
- Goodspeed - 08-24-2006
Maengelito Wrote:when i say that i want current students to come out to the track, i mean physically being at the track, interacting with other members, seeing how operations work and getting to know the racing community. this has fostered our relationship with nasa-ma and hopefully it will continue to. if a current student doesnt like being at the track, thats fine, i cant make them come. but i ask that everyone with interest in this club come atleast once before saying they dont wanna do it. more on this later tonight when i get back home
Thats very true, and trust us we are going to do everything we can to get people out to the track to participate in any way they can, flagging, spectating, racing, whatever. I was given that first opportunity when I joined and loved it, hopefully others will too. You should come to meetings and talk about participating at the track
- NTIman - 08-24-2006
the times i have been at the track,i have had no problem whatsoever with any member of MM. everyone has been very welcoming,and i think it would be that way for anyone else who's new to the club. you'll always have a small amount of dickswinging in any type of club,and its usually all in fun.
Re: Sharing is caring/Alumni-Current student relations - .RJ - 08-24-2006
white_2kgt Wrote:Who could be scared of this group
G.Irish Wrote:*Pete, Kaan, and Allison walking out of Ham's*
John: Now there goes an unlikely threesome.
Chad: That's a really thick sandwich!
Kaan Wrote:Kaan: Oh God, Chad you have a CB in here?
Chad: Hell Yeah!
RJ: What is that?
Chad: Thats the GPS.
Kaan: You have GPS and a CB radio?
Chad: Well sometimes, when you are way out there in the city... there arent many truckers... so you have to turn the GPS on when you get lost.
- D_Eclipse9916 - 08-24-2006
I think that whole alumni not being nice AT the actual track is bullshit. I have been to at least 3 track events at summit and VIR, and although that is not much compared to the rest of these guys, 95% of the club (current students) has not been out more than once.
I Found the alumni very welcoming at the actual track but very short, understandable as they are actually very busy during these events, but at least they were very nice and actually gave me the time of day. I think a lot of alumni/current student "drama" is on this forum, as I get into heated discussions with a few people like RJ, but in person we dont get into the same heated discussions.
Problem: The current students just dont seem to have the same passion as the alumni, as I have tried countless times to bring out current students to the track and the autocross. Autocross is the big thing I stress with the current students as its only 20 bucks...and wont break cars. But I have gone to 99% of my autocross events ALONE, not even one other current student.
That is the current student's choice, not something that is the alumni's concern. But it is ALSO NOT THE ALUMNI's fault for supposedly being not welcoming.
My first weekend working I had a blast with Maeng and Boobies and all them and would love to do it again.
What I hate:
1. Current students bitching about alumni not welcoming
2. Alumni bitching that current students have a different agenda
3. Current students that "say" they want to be out there but supposedly cant. Absolutely BS, I was a freshman and made it out to 20 times the amount of autocrosses that 90% of current students have made it out to.
If you dont want to fine, but dont give me some bullshit reason why you cant. Dont do that one modification suich as an exhaust for 400 dollars and you can make it out to OMG 20 autocrosses.
The alumni are intimidating, but not unfriendly, there is a huge difference.
- Jess - 08-24-2006
As someone who was there when Gerald and Chan decided to form this club, my first concern is that the club is straying from it's motorsports roots. I think this is a problem because the type of people a "car club" attracts are the type of people who engage in the type of jackassery that would get the club's charter revoked by JMU.
I see now a club of people who don't seem that enthusiastic about the "motorsports" aspect. There seems to be a shroud of mystique surrounding track events that leads to a misconception among current students.
Participating in track events doesn't necessarily mean a driver school. It could be just spectating or working an event (which by the way, helps pay for a school!). It's a way to get experience and immerse yourself in the culture that is this club.
Make no mistake, NONE of the OGs had all the "track" vehicles in college that they have now. So it's hard for me (and us) to understand why the main excuse from students is "I don't have a track car and don't want to drive my daily driver, so I'm not going"
In college, if Chan was signed up for an autocross or an HPDE, he spent the week before in the parking lot bleeding the brakes on his ONLY car. HPDE doesn't mean that you need a track car. It doesn't even mean you need a nice car. By all means, drive a craptastic honda in an HPDE. Believe me, that will be fast enough for you.
While there is always a concern about wrecking your only car, I'd say you're just as likely (if not more likely) to be in an accident driving around the streets of Harrisonburg than at an HPDE. Why? It's a controlled environment, you aren't going all out on your first HPDE, and you are there to learn how to control your car and manuever around the course, not go balls out into a tire wall.
But there is no way any of you new guys would know these things unless you got out there and saw this for yourself.
Further, what about autocrossing? That was an easy way to participate early on, before these guys started going to track events. It's easy, it's doesn't really cost anything but the entrace fee (maybe $30) and the prep on a car is next to nil - so you can run your daily driver!
And it doesn't have to be just about cars. Now we've got a bunch of OGs into bikes. There's also karting events like enduros.
I just feel that it's WAY to easy to get invovled, IF YOU REALLY WANT TO, and I just feel at times that the current students drag their feet on getting invovled in the real "motorsports" and instead opt for car meets, etc or whatever else it is you guys do to show off your bling. If you want to party, great. But the social aspect should supplement the aims and goals of this club, not replace the real action.
*phew* longest post evaR...
- Goodspeed - 08-24-2006
One thing we shouldn't do is look down upon people that choose not to track their cars, if thats their choice we should respect that. If they otherwise support and enjoy MM that should be enough. I think this forum allows people to over react way too much and over analyze things. Also I've seen a reduction in mean spirited posts, fun or not it was getting really old and I'm glad to see thats becoming a thing of the past.
That being said I think we can still do a better job getting people out to the track to participate as they wish. At the meetings I didn't hear enough of "Hey I'm going to the track, anyone want a ride?" Granted if you asked for one you got one which is great, but if you really want to get people out there be vocal about giving rides
- Jess - 08-24-2006
Goodspeed Wrote:One thing we shouldn't do is look down upon people that choose not to track their cars, if thats their choice we should respect that. If they otherwise support and enjoy MM that should be enough. I think this forum allows people to over react way too much and over analyze things. Also I've seen a reduction in mean spirited posts, fun or not it was getting really old and I'm glad to see thats becoming a thing of the past.
That being said I think we can still do a better job getting people out to the track to participate as they wish. At the meetings I didn't hear enough of "Hey I'm going to the track, anyone want a ride?" Granted if you asked for one you got one which is great, but if you really want to get people out there be vocal about giving rides
I don't think anyone is going to look down upon people who don't track their cars, but there probably will be eye rolling for those that join a "motorsports" club and instead only care about flaunting their stunna skillz.
Actually, I think it would be a great idea to have a "Rides" sticky on the forum for those people going to track events that have space for passengers. (insert jokes about people's Mom/sister here).
That way people who are interested in going can ask for a ride, or those participating who have extra space can bring someone along (even those alums who can't make it to meetings).
But honestly, if you try to drum up interest at the meeting, you can all carpool, especially to an event like Summit.
Where there's a will, there's a way, is all I'm saying...
- Chris - 08-24-2006
Jess Wrote:By all means, drive a craptastic honda in an HPDE. Believe me, that will be fast enough for you.
you know damn right!
This whole topic has come up a lot lately, and I just wanted to let the current students know you don't have to feel pressured to get your vehicle involved in anything if you don't want. I would highly recommend attending a race weekend before saying you have no interest. Even if its for an afternoon, come out to Summit (an hour from JMU) and see whats going on. Maybe after that, work an event- earn some credits (first time out) or cash once you become a flagger.
If you do feel like driving, I would autox first. Its relatively cheap and not too hard on your car. I did several autox's and HPDE's during college and right after when I didn't have a job and all I bought for my car were brake pads and another set of wheels and tires. I encourage people to try it (when they are ready) because I feel it makes you a more alert and cautious driver on the street- one less person I have to worry about on my daily commute!!
If I haven't met you yet, sorry. I don't get to JMU nearly as much as I used to. If I'm at an event, come on by and shoot the shit. I might be a little busy with my busted E30 but never too busy to say hi.
- NTIman - 08-24-2006
I don't want to track my Focus. I don't want to mess it up.
That being said, it doesn't stop me from working events,or spectating. One day I will have a car that I wouldn't mind tracking(in fact, if I wanted one now,i'd save up a few hundred dollars,and buy a crappy car) and all I'm doing at this point is saving up credits so I can take HPDEs for free. Not a bad deal. And even if I don't use my worker credits, I don't care,because I truly enjoy motorsports. I don't mind working for a weekend even if I don't get anything out of it at all. Most of the time you end up learning a little bit about cars you like,and racing in general. I will be at the next Summit Point event to spectate for a while,and I'm sure it will be a blast. Hell,most Saturdays I pay $18 to get into Hagerstown speedway pits,just to watch my friend get slaughtered in the Late model sportsman class.
So lets recap:
1. don't want to mess up focus
2. have no track car
3. and most important, # 1 and 2 don't mean anything
- Feersty - 08-24-2006
It was a great idea to start this thread Andy, hopefully we can discuss a few things in here.
For someone that has never tracked their car and has only done one autocross maybe i can shed some light on the subject. The only time I have been on track is for touring laps.
I just think in general the focus of the club has changed in terms of current students. I think the separate forum propetuated this schism further, but I don't care to touch that topic, considering I am not a student. I think that change began when myself, Jay Ray, Scotty, Reed, Jack, B00bies, Hunter, and the rest of our class graduated from JMU. Following that we had Ryan as president, who I know was involved in track days because I shared hotel rooms with him, and I am sure that he promoted participating in track events and continues to but sadly I don't really know because I wasn't there.
It is great that events are being organized in that student section of the forum, and if wakeboarding, beer pong tourneys, and the other is what current students want to do, so be it. Think back to Gerald's and B00bies parties, they were amazing.
With participating in track days it takes time management and getting your school work done during the week, and being able to plan ahead. It also means you have to wake up early to get to whatever track at 745am or whatever time it is. Which if you are going to Summit from JMU leaving at like 530am. You have to give up drinking that weekend because that is what you WANT to do.
If current students aren't interested in waking up early Saturday morning and managing their time in the days previous then they nick themselves from being able to participate.
To current students, college is going to pass you by so fast, make the best of your time there and establish solid friendships, but remember that days at the track will be just as memorable if not more so than the crazy parties you went to. If I had to go back I wouldn't drink as much and establish friendships without alcohol, but digress.
For those not sure, just try it out, give up alcohol for the weekend, you might like it. You are in a Motorsports club after all.
Sidenote: How many current students preuse the threads daily? If someone could PM me. If it is not a lot, current officers lets get people on the forums!
- .RJ - 08-24-2006
Nice post Rob, well said : thumbup:
I dont have a whole lot to say about coming to the track, but I would like to see more of you involved at the track, doing autox events, etc....
Thats how I started, and I havent looked back. I've met some great friends here and at the track, had a lot of good experiences, and some bad (like car on top of a tirewall) but its all been worth it. And to be honest, if it was not for MM coming to the track every weekend I'm not sure I would have still been doing this for as long as I have... having MM around is always the best part of the weekend and what keeps all of us coming back.
You dont need a lot of time, or $$... autox is cheap, flagging is cheap, doing a few HPDE 1 events can be pretty cheap too. If its important to get involved, then make it happen
- navin - 08-25-2006
Well I'm not too sure how my .02 cents helps, but that being said I am not part of MM. Everyone I have met from MM has been nothing but nice and welcoming, although I knew Mike and RJ somewhat before meeting others.
And I'm with RJ, if there wasnt a big group of MM'ers at the track I really dont think id be having as much fun as I do every weekend.
- G.Irish - 08-25-2006
Let me be the first to say that I think things might look a little worse than they are because almost all of the alumni don't autocross much anymore if any. So naturally it looks pretty bad that we don't see some of the new folks out that much anymore.
I think that if you want to do HPDE's or get into racing that starting off autocrossing is key to you doing so successfully. Its cheap, very low to negligible risk of crashing, and its an excellent way to build your car control skills. Just about everyone who is tracking or racing now started out with autox. Karting is also another cheap way to build your skills. I really hope to see more karting events this year.
One thing I wish the club did more of (and this goes for alumni too) is get out to watch professional races. I'm not saying we should be driving all over the country to watch 10 races a year but at the very least there is 3 or 4 really fun events at VIR and the 12 hour at Summit. Before Chan and I started the club one of the things that really got us hooked was going to watch pro races at VIR. This was way back before I had even autocrossed for the first time (after that I started autocrossing my automatic Civic).
I think people misunderstand the social stuff a little bit. When we started the club we realized that part of the key to getting people to participate was that we had to build relationships in the membership. Movie nights and parties were a good way to do that. Still, I think that there are a lot more motorsport themed social events we could take advantage of.
One thing I'd like to point out is that part of the reason of starting MM was that we realized that HPDE, racing, autocrossing, spectating could all be cheaper if we pooled our resources together as a club. For those that are concerned about the cost of some events, you can really take a lot of the sting out of it by cooperating. That's exactly what we did at Laguna Seca this year where we saved about $200-300 each by getting a RV together.
I have more thoughts on a lot of things but that's off the top of my head.
- WRXtranceformed - 08-25-2006
Feersty Wrote:Think back to Gerald's and B00bies parties, they were amazing.BOOBIES!!!!
![[Image: Picture033.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/WRXTranceformed/Picture033.jpg)