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Bush & Cheney ordered the leak - G.Irish - 04-07-2006
Not good.
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- Andy - 04-07-2006
Technically,
that's not only a felony but sedition. So technically, if this fleshes out and turns out to be true, we're going to have to execute some folks.
- G.Irish - 04-07-2006
From what I see the President didn't necessarily order the outing of Valerie Plame, but Cheney certainly did. In that case it is an act of treason. However, executive privilege could probably save his hide.
At the very least Libby should go to jail.
- Hunter - 04-07-2006
This is going to get real messy real quick. It seems that it's legal for the president to declassify information, but if the president didn't know about it cheney is pretty much gone. However, it sounds like the president did know about it, that means he took an extremely sneaky way to influence the media which makes me wonder what else they may be hiding.
- G.Irish - 04-07-2006
Well revealing the identity of a covert operative is a felony, but at the same time the President can de-classify things at will. Does outing covert operatives is legal too?
Either way it was extremely shady that on one hand the President said he would get to the bottom of the leaks yet he was the one who ordered them in the first place. It certainly doesn't make him look good.
- Sijray21 - 04-07-2006
Hunter Wrote:he took an extremely sneaky way to influence the media which makes me wonder what else they may be hiding.
there's probably a LOT the general public doesn't know and probably shouldn't know 'for the good of the public' - there is a reason it's classified. I don't agree with how they approached this; i hope there's more to the story as this develops.
- G.Irish - 04-07-2006
Sijray21 Wrote:Hunter Wrote:he took an extremely sneaky way to influence the media which makes me wonder what else they may be hiding.
there's probably a LOT the general public doesn't know and probably shouldn't know 'for the good of the public' - there is a reason it's classified. I don't agree with how they approached this; i hope there's more to the story as this develops.
That kind of jumps out at me. It would be naive to think that there has not been a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes that presidents have been doing that was illegal or at the very least improper. But the difference is they rarely got caught. The one that did ended up losing his office.
Bush's crew has been doing a lot of shady stuff but they're not doing a good job of keeping it secret. I wonder if it has to do with the fact that now with the internet information can spread light years faster than before. On the other hand one has to consider that some of this is due to the Bush Administration's incompetence.
- G.Irish - 04-07-2006
G.Irish Wrote:It would be naive to think that there has not been a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes that presidents have been doing that was illegal or at the very least improper. But the difference is they rarely got caught. The one that did ended up losing his office.And I guess there was the other who got caught with his pants down :lol:
- Sijray21 - 04-07-2006
G.Irish Wrote:It would be naive to think that there has not been a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes that presidents have been doing that was illegal or at the very least improper. But the difference is they rarely got caught. The one that did ended up losing his office.not to say that the information is illegal or improper, but there is probably information that is kept classified b/c of the higher authority that "they" (government) has. I was just referring to any sensitive information that may be misinterpreted or could be used against the United States for harm (in any form - physical, economic, etc.).
G.Irish Wrote:Bush's crew has been doing a lot of shady stuff but they're not doing a good job of keeping it secret. I wonder if it has to do with the fact that now with the internet information can spread light years faster than before. On the other hand one has to consider that some of this is due to the Bush Administration's incompetence.I didn't even think about the advancement of technology affecting this, that's a very good point. This problem is probably a combination of increased awareness, increased skeptisism, and increased communication and visibility due to increased technology. Getting caught up in lies is the worst thing that can happen for a political appointment.
- G.Irish - 04-07-2006
Oh, and someone has to do a spoof: "DID YOU ORDER THE CODE RED?!" "YOU'RE DAMNED RIGHT I DID!"
Actually, I think the Code Red would be a good name for a pizza.
"DID YOU ORDER THE CODE RED?!"
"YOU"RE DAMNED RIGHT I DID! IT WAS OVER AN HOUR AGO WHERE THE HELL IS MY PIZZA?!!!"
- JackoliciousLegs - 04-07-2006
:roll: I expected this sort of crap from the moment we went to war with Iraq. This administration has been untrustworthy since the day they got into office (not comparing them to anyone, just saying) and this is just another pin in the stack.
I hope something happens to this administration but I seriously doubt it will. So much has happened on their watch (cia outings, lobbying scandals, katrina, a mislead war) and they're still cleaning their hands of all of it. (I don't want to complain about their legal policy making)
I would have so much more respect for them (and would stop most of my liberal whining) if Scott MickeyCee came out one day and apologized. "We had bad information." "We hired the wrong people." "We made bad decisions." "We shot someone in the face." (sorry bout that last one
) That would make me think that these guys aren't that bad.The fact that they continually accumulate shit on their feet and ignore it pisses me off to all hell.
- Maengelito - 04-07-2006
JackoliciousLegs Wrote:(cia outings, lobbying scandals, katrina, a mislead war)
yes, lobby scandals are new exclusively to this administration. also that chick that was outed as a cia employee was well known in washington and she didnt make it unknown. and this administration also invented hurricanes as well. damn hippies...
- G.Irish - 04-07-2006
Well Maeng any way you slice it the Katrina response was piss poor. I think a lot of the blame lies squarely in local government's lap but the Bush Administration certainly can't be commended on their performance either.
On the lobbying stuff I thought it was a long shot that anyone would even really go down for it since its been going on for so long. Can't really say the BA is probably no worse than a lot of the previous administrations.
I don't particularly buy that Plame's identity was known before. If it was, then all the Bush Administration had to say was, "The fact she was a CIA operative was public knowledge way before the fact." The probe wouldn't have gone anywhere if this was the case.
Funny, I knew Jacko would come frothing at the mouth at this news.
- JackoliciousLegs - 04-07-2006
Maengelito Wrote:I thought I made it clear that this wasn't a comparison; rather a simple indictment of this current administration. Also, I never suggested they invented hurricanes, just that they don't know how to handle them. MickyCee can't even admit that they botched the job. (can you tell i hate the guy?)JackoliciousLegs Wrote:(cia outings, lobbying scandals, katrina, a mislead war)yes, lobby scandals are new exclusively to this administration. also that chick that was outed as a cia employee was well known in washington and she didnt make it unknown. and this administration also invented hurricanes as well. damn hippies...
On a side note, I don't consider myself a hippie. I'm anti-drug, not anti-war (so long as it's merited), don't listen to hendrix/jefferson airplane etc., not vegetarian. I just believe in the value of all people. (and the necessity for integrity, especially for those in positions of public office)
- Evan - 04-07-2006
JackoliciousLegs Wrote:The fact that they continually accumulate shit on their feet and ignore it pisses me off to all hell.oh, you mean like real estate scams, key witness "suicides", illegal campaign contribution scandals, fucking interns, lying under oath, impeachments, classified document theft, and 9/11 responsibility coverups?
damn.....the current administration must be a breath of fresh air for you! :lol:
- JackoliciousLegs - 04-07-2006
G.Irish Wrote:Funny, I knew Jacko would come frothing at the mouth at this news.
![[Image: chienenragcage2.gif]](http://www.who.int/rabies/en/chienenragcage2.gif)
grrrrrrrrr
- Evan - 04-07-2006
G.Irish Wrote:Funny, I knew Jacko would come frothing at the mouth at this news.I almost posted IBTJacko this morning
- JackoliciousLegs - 04-07-2006
Evan Wrote:the current administration must be a breath of fresh air for you! :lol:I just wish we could judge this administration more on the content of their policy rather than the crap that happens to people when they have power.
- Maengelito - 04-07-2006
JackoliciousLegs Wrote:On a side note, I don't consider myself a hippie. I'm anti-drug, not anti-war (so long as it's merited), don't listen to hendrix/jefferson airplane etc., not vegetarian. I just believe in the value of all people. (and the necessity for integrity, especially for those in positions of public office)
haha, i'm just tryin to get a rise out of you, thats all...
as for her identity being known, it was public knowledge. she was always at some fundraiser or some gathering and everyone knew she was a cia employee. hell, all of you (well, most of you, i'm sure) know that i work for a DoD intel agency. thats no big deal. as to what she does and when she does such things, thats when it gets a bit questionable. i havent seen anything that exclusively pins something on her, but then again, i havent been following this as closely as some of you guys might be.
and for the hurricane thing. well it was one of the worst natural disasters in the country's history. i do remember bush declaring it a state of emergency a few days before the hurricane even hit. as to how those funds get dispersed and how fast logistics can move, well thats where the real problem lies.
- Evan - 04-07-2006
Maengelito Wrote:and for the hurricane thing. well it was one of the worst natural disasters in the country's history. i do remember bush declaring it a state of emergency a few days before the hurricane even hit. as to how those funds get dispersed and how fast logistics can move, well thats where the real problem lies.That reminds me of when the big tsunami hit on Xmas eve, Bush got railed in the US and international media because he made his statement from his Ranch, but immediately authorized millions in funds for relief. Kofi Anan, on the other hand, was skiing in Denver (treated by a lobbyist..) and continued to do so for the next 5 days, yet was not reprimanded (or even mentioned) by the UN friendly media. In fact the UN was praised in the media as an attempt to legitimize the need for the organization that has in past years become irrelevant and scandalous.
No matter what happens, the current administration will be criticized. Ive given up on trying to inform the uninformed or persuade the ignorant. It is what it is. Im not really taking this thread (or this issue) too seriously, because I dont really feel like getting sucked into a worthless debate. But if I get a chance maybe Ill go into more detail on some of the points Maeng has already mentioned and share my feelings