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+--- Thread: Safety first you scoundrels (/showthread.php?tid=2883)
Safety first you scoundrels - Hunter - 09-26-2005
Well guys, I've decided that I'm going to put a roll bar in my car, I mean hell, who uses their back seat anyway. I think I'm going to give Bimmerworld a call and have them install one for me, but i'll probably just go with one of the kirk racing bolt in cages over a custom one. I figured I wouldn't want to install a roll bar myself, i want to make sure its done as well as possible.
I know they're are roll bars with removable cross braces and what not so the back seat would still be moderatly useable. (I still wouldnt want to put people back there) Does anyone know if they are significantly less strong?
Also, would i have to buy seats in order to run a 5 point harness? I cant afford seats now, so I figured I would have to go with 4 point one.
- JohnC - 09-26-2005
This belongs in tech, f00l!
Re: Safety first you scoundrels - white_2kgt - 09-27-2005
Hunter Wrote:Also, would i have to buy seats in order to run a 5 point harness? I cant afford seats now, so I figured I would have to go with 4 point one.
Your stock belt is safer than ANY 4pt. Also, while you 'can' run a harness with stock seats usually is isn't safe because you can't really route the sub belt through the stock seat, so people say don't do it, and I agree. On the harness bar make SURE with the seat adjusted like you drive, that if it reclines (as the lock breaks in a crash) your HEAD won't slam into the bar. Personally, I'd wait and save your $$$ and do seats/harnesses at the same time. It's really the best route to go.
- Hunter - 09-27-2005
I dont think I really understand where 4-pt harnesses are mounted. Are the two sides of the lap belt fastened higher that where the lap belt on a stock belt is mounted? Because I've heard a lot of "submarine" warnings for the 4 pt. harnesses.
If its really that much safer to do seats at the same time I might be able to do it and just hope I dont break anything on the car for a few months. I just feel like seats are to bling for me, I'm not that high class.
- Evan - 09-27-2005
go with an autopower bar and install it yourself. Autopower even did a writeup on how to install one in an e36
use the extra money you save on a seat! (or 2)
- Jeff - 09-27-2005
Autopower for my ride is like $360....bargain...asking for it for X-mas
- Hunter - 09-27-2005
Im thinking that because If I do go cheaper I may be able to afford seats more easily. However on the other hand, I dont know if a roll bar is really something I want try to do as cheaply as possible.
I'd probably just stay with the kirk racing roll bar which I could pick up from bimmerworld because its around the same price as the autopower one, and i can't imagine how much it would cost to ship a roll bar.
- white_2kgt - 09-27-2005
Hunter Wrote:I dont think I really understand where 4-pt harnesses are mounted. Are the two sides of the lap belt fastened higher that where the lap belt on a stock belt is mounted? Because I've heard a lot of "submarine" warnings for the 4 pt. harnesses.
If its really that much safer to do seats at the same time I might be able to do it and just hope I dont break anything on the car for a few months. I just feel like seats are to bling for me, I'm not that high class.
The lap belt mounts in the same place as the stock lap belt would. The shoulder mounts on MOST 4pts are very long and people end up mounting them to the seat belt mounts in the back seat, or draping them straight down behind the seat and bolting them to the seat mount bolts. BOTH are very bad. Also, in a crash you continue forward, belts get tight and the lap belt is pulled up by the shoulder belt causing it to rest somewhere south of your ribcage (maybe a little higher taking a few ribs out), this also causes some of your lower innards to take quite an impact. A sub belt or 5th and 6th point prevents this from happening. I use to run a 4pt in autocross, but NEVER on a road course.
- Mike - 09-27-2005
an autopower bar is by no means "cheap." yes, it is in price, but they are probably the best bang for your buck. try to find a used one. if it isn't "used" you can get a very good deal on it, and shipping through greyhound is painless.
- Jeff - 09-27-2005
In an 89 Tona Shelbdizzle
![[Image: DSCN9859.jpg]](http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b369/Khajjathefang/DSCN9859.jpg)
Price correction. $336 for this one
- Chris - 09-27-2005
for HPDE do you need seats and harnesses for both driver and passenger? I was told it must be the same safety level for both.
- navin - 09-27-2005
I hope seats do not fall under that category, I am pretty sure Harness' do..
I only have a driver side Sparco EVO (stock belt) and a Integra seat for passenger...
- white_2kgt - 09-27-2005
Chris Wrote:for HPDE do you need seats and harnesses for both driver and passenger? I was told it must be the same safety level for both.
Yes, in the end though it is up to the instructor. If he doesn't 'feel' safe, he doesn't have to get in the car, and therefore you don't go on track, or he signs you off. Just ask evan about that one.
- Chris - 09-27-2005
white_2kgt Wrote:Chris Wrote:for HPDE do you need seats and harnesses for both driver and passenger? I was told it must be the same safety level for both.
Yes, in the end though it is up to the instructor. If he doesn't 'feel' safe, he doesn't have to get in the car, and therefore you don't go on track, or he signs you off. Just ask evan about that one.
ok good to know, both will be going in.
- Hunter - 09-27-2005
Mike Wrote:an autopower bar is by no means "cheap." yes, it is in price, but they are probably the best bang for your buck. try to find a used one. if it isn't "used" you can get a very good deal on it, and shipping through greyhound is painless.
I dont mean to rip on the autopower bar, but everyone I've talked to seems to say they dont make a good bar for the e36, most people complain fo too big of a gap between the roof and top of the bar. I've also heard of issues with their mounting plates being too small. I dont know if it matters anyway because I can get the kirk racing bar cheaper than I could get a autopower bar anyway.
- Beej - 09-27-2005
I have a Kirk bar in my e30.
On the 'sides' of the top straight part, I could squeeze maybe my pinky in there. Getting the padding to go over it was rough. It's not as close to the B-pillars as I'd like, but it's not awful.
My main beef for it is that the mounting plates on the downbars are flat, and they mount to the wheelwell, which is obviously curved. All it took was a few hammer hits to bend it down a little, but they should come with a pre-bent mounting plate.
- Evan - 09-27-2005
white_2kgt Wrote:Yes, in the end though it is up to the instructor. If he doesn't 'feel' safe, he doesn't have to get in the car, and therefore you don't go on track, or he signs you off. Just ask evan about that one.You must have harnesses on the passenger side if they ar eont he driver side, no slack there. As far as the seat goes, if its a stock seat it makes me wonder why the driver is so cheap that he cant spend $200 on a corbeau or something, and its not a good way to start a weekend, but if the seat is in decent shape then i will probably let it slide.
One time I had a student in a DA integra with a full rollcage, hoosiers, nice sparco and harnesses on his side, and stock seat and seatbelt with not even any cage padding. my head was resting against the cage bars. I rode with that guy for a session then got the fugg out. In the future I wont even do that for a session.
Another student had a metal hard mounted cell phone holder that stuck out right where my knee was supposed to be. I made him take it out, and he bitched and whined about it, but Im not loosing a leg for any student.
i also wont go out if the student has a harness bar. it must come out.
- Hunter - 09-27-2005
I would probably do the same thing as evan the saftey nazi, which is why I want to make sure I have the same setup in the driver and passenger seat.
On that note, how are the corbeau seats? Because i think thats all I would be able to afford.
- Evan - 09-27-2005
corbeau seats are ok, but not nearly as good as a fiberglass seat. but for a skinny guy like you they arent really ideal
one is good for the passenger side, since most instructors will fit in one
i would look at the momo start. its a cheap fiberglass seat that is for skinnier people
and i think i will have a corbeau for sale sometime soon if you are interested
- white_2kgt - 09-27-2005
Evan Wrote:One time I had a student in a DA integra with a full rollcage, hoosiers, nice sparco and harnesses on his side, and stock seat and seatbelt with not even any cage padding. my head was resting against the cage bars. I rode with that guy for a session then got the fugg out.
Yea, that was at Shen, I remember you were wigging out about that car.
Evan Wrote:i also wont go out if the student has a harness bar. it must come out.
And stock seats you mean? No reason not to get in a car w/ harness bar if the belts are mounted to them and they have fixed back seats.