+- Madison Motorsports (https://forum.mmsports.org)
+-- Forum: Technical (https://forum.mmsports.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: Technical Discussion (https://forum.mmsports.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=11)
+--- Thread: Springrates w/stock yellow's (/showthread.php?tid=2769)
Springrates w/stock yellow's - damnit458 - 09-08-2005
Im going to be running koni yellows w/GC's with custom springrates of 450 F 550 R. Before I ordered this I looked arround a bit to see what the general limit was for springrates before a revalve was needed for konis. Anyways, Im kind of curious as to what you guys think. Through your reading/exp about how long do you think my shocks will last?
I was talking with Ryan about this earlier, which is why Im bringing this up. I believe he said Mike thought they wouldnt last longer than a year (correct me if im wrong mike), which some other people also seem to think. Before I ordered them, I actually talked with CRXLee on H-T (works for Koni-NA I believe) and he said the shocks will be fine at those springrates. Regardless, even if they blow, I can always have them replaced for free, or just revalved for some more money. Any of you have any experience with rates close to this?
FWIW they'll be on my POS civic hb
- .RJ - 09-08-2005
I would keep them at 500lbs or less - they sure wont go bad in a year with those rates, or even higher. You can go higher, but you run out of damping adjustment and the ride quality really deteriorates.
- Mike - 09-08-2005
i believe what i said to ryan was right around 500lbs is the limit. you go higher and you're shorteneing the life and performance of the OTS units.
- white_2kgt - 09-08-2005
shocks don't 'blow' b/c of increased spring rates, they just don't work correctly. the only way shocks blow is due to the seals going bad or over use, as in putting lowering springs on a stock shock. You are asking the shock to work in areas it wasn't designed to. So just a stiffer spring w/ same ride height won't necessarly harm it, just give a crappy ride.
- Mike - 09-08-2005
well chad, if you're running an increased spring rate the effectively used portion of the shock is shortened and if you can't dampen the rate it's going to bounce and result in severe overuse.
- white_2kgt - 09-08-2005
Mike Wrote:well chad, if you're running an increased spring rate the effectively used portion of the shock is shortened and if you can't dampen the rate it's going to bounce and result in severe overuse.
maybe on some POS shock, not a Koni or bilstein. I was mainly talking about the piston having to go further into the shock body from a shorter spring.
- .RJ - 09-08-2005
Running higher than 500# springs wont really shorten their service life much, they just wont work all that well and the ride quality will suck. Ride quality on my 600/800# springs with revalved yellows is much better than the ride with 450/650-700# springs with OTS yellows I had on the 91 'teg.
- Mike - 09-08-2005
any shock that is faced with a spring rate it can't handle will break the same. granted, a pos will break sooner, but it's inevitable even for a koni.
- .RJ - 09-08-2005
Mike Wrote:any shock that is faced with a spring rate it can't handle will break the same.
Why? Just because it cant effectively damp the spring doesnt mean its being worn out.
- Mike - 09-08-2005
think.... if it can damp the rate... it sees one cycle.
if it can't damp the rate.... it bounces and sees multiple cycles.
- .RJ - 09-08-2005
And your point? The shock will see millions of cycles through its service life.
- Mike - 09-08-2005
yes, but if it sees twice the cycles per bump it'll blow in half the time...
then again, maybe i'm just a drunken idiot, but this seems to make sense to me.
- .RJ - 09-08-2005
If you were worried about the number of damping cycles you wouldnt drive the car anywhere on the street.
- Mike - 09-08-2005
and i rarely do
edit: driven it once in the past 2 months )had to move parking garages cause i switched jobs)
- .RJ - 09-08-2005
Thats because you got m4d vTackkk!
- Mike - 09-08-2005
fuck yeah i do... 6th gear... tomorrow
- .RJ - 09-08-2005
Do it!
- damnit458 - 09-08-2005
When I ordered those springrates I knew ride quality would go to shit, so thats nothing new to me. I see Mikes point about how more cycles would eventually lead to it blowing faster...but like said before (by Rj)...if you really cared that much you just wouldnt drive the car that much, or at all. Ill deal with it, especially since I have the warrenty and such. To be honest Im excited as hell to see the difference it makes. I figure there should really be a difference with those springrates and the ITR rear sway bar I'll be putting on w/in the next week. Should be interesting
Edit: To be honest, Im willing to be there will be a difference with just the Rear sway bar, although the coilovers and shocks will be going on first, tommorow. No rear sway to 22 mm is supposed to make a noticable difference by itself, as I would expect it to...
- .RJ - 09-08-2005
Find some integra front LCA's and front swaybar also.
But if you cant hit the 6th gear vtec, you aint got shit
- Mike - 09-08-2005
hrm my thoughts... you've done well, no worries there.
w/ a 450/550 bias and an itr bar you're going to be oversteering all over the place.
warranty? don't bank on it with those rates
really, you have nothing to worry about, though. by the time those shock are ready to give out you'll have the excess funds to have them revalved.
- mike, who wishes he had gone with yellows.