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+--- Thread: Let Us Learn from the Mistakes of Others: GT350 T-bones GT3 at VIR (/showthread.php?tid=11935)
Let Us Learn from the Mistakes of Others: GT350 T-bones GT3 at VIR - G.Irish - 07-05-2019
https://streamable.com/rfcyd
Saw this on r/cars. Skip to about 9:15 for the incident.
Seems like the driver was driving somewhat decently until he experienced brain fade and missed his braking point on the fastest part of the track. If I had to guess, I think he just zoned out at the worst possible time. You can see him looking down at his lap timer a few moments before so maybe he just didn't refocus. I'd like to think he wasn't trying to brake that late on purpose.
It's scary how hard he hit that Porsche. 70 mph at point of impact.
EDIT: Checked Rennlist for this incident and saw the description from the driver on youtube before he deleted it from there:
Quote:This was the 1st session on Day 2 at VIR with Chin Track Days on 29-30 June 2019. The car was running well. The event was going well. The session, and my event, ended with a Black Flag when I was unable to adequately slow the car in the Brake Zone at the end of the back straight. I ended up leaving the track and then crossing back over it... in the process hitting a GT3.
Uh...a lot of passive voice in there...
Let Us Learn from the Mistakes of Others: GT350 T-bones GT3 at VIR - Senor_Taylor - 07-05-2019
Bad time to make such a mistake. I'm sure the guy in the Porsche bad a much worse experience here. Hope they had a containment seat.
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Let Us Learn from the Mistakes of Others: GT350 T-bones GT3 at VIR - JPolen01 - 07-05-2019
Holy crap that was a big hit. Hopefully everyone was ok. That was an expensive day for him.
RE: Let Us Learn from the Mistakes of Others: GT350 T-bones GT3 at VIR - .RJ - 07-05-2019
In the lap before the t-boning (unkefer voice: you should not have done that) you can see he's getting inconsistent in missing turn-ins, he was 10mph slower up the esses than in previous laps, etc. Total brain fade. I'm guessing it was hot AF out there.
man, that's hard to watch.
RE: Let Us Learn from the Mistakes of Others: GT350 T-bones GT3 at VIR - Goodspeed - 07-05-2019
Damn, that sucks all around. Poor beautiful GT3 did not need to go out like that, and I hope the driver was OK. It's interesting to think about the on set of brain fade in track conditions (and I'm no expert) but I partly wonder how much you can fault the GT350 driver - sounds like a vicious cycle where he might have been unaware he was switching off at all until it was too late, like hypoxia where you just go to sleep and can't really control it to any degree.
Makes any sense or nah? Maybe if his first incident was to put 2 off somewhere he'd have realized his state of mind and had the self control to pit-in before he injured himself or others.
Let Us Learn from the Mistakes of Others: GT350 T-bones GT3 at VIR - Senor_Taylor - 07-05-2019
I mean, to blow a braking zone like that seems like a big lapse in judgement unless there was some serious brake fade. "Brain fade" seems generous and "big mistake" seems more accurate
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Let Us Learn from the Mistakes of Others: GT350 T-bones GT3 at VIR - rherold9 - 07-06-2019
Target fixation on the off track into that gt3... For sure could've avoided that hit.
He's a scary driver in general though, I've watched his previous videos before when searching around YouTube. Misses lines. Drives sloppy. He has wrecked or spun? in T1 with no correction. He needs some instruction in his car although I wouldn't want to be the one in the right seat.
The amount his seat moves. Head touching the roof. Whearing a fucking donut vs a full Hans. 50-60k car with seats/harnesses/roll bar but can't fathom using a hans...?
Sigh. The doing it for the YouTube/Gram in car video too is just like why?
Does anyone know if the gt3 driver is okay? I discussed this in the TT5/ST5 chat but know one knew. Hopefully had a containment seat and track insurance...
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RE: Let Us Learn from the Mistakes of Others: GT350 T-bones GT3 at VIR - Scott - 07-06-2019
(07-06-2019, 02:03 PM)rherold9 Wrote: Does anyone know if the gt3 driver is okay? I discussed this in the TT5/ST5 chat but know one knew. Hopefully had a containment seat and track insurance...
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Driver is "fine", very sore but ok. GT3 is done. Did not have track insurance.
RE: Let Us Learn from the Mistakes of Others: GT350 T-bones GT3 at VIR - rherold9 - 07-06-2019
(07-06-2019, 05:34 PM)Scott Wrote:Feels bad [emoji17](07-06-2019, 02:03 PM)rherold9 Wrote: Does anyone know if the gt3 driver is okay? I discussed this in the TT5/ST5 chat but know one knew. Hopefully had a containment seat and track insurance...
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Driver is "fine", very sore but ok. GT3 is done. Did not have track insurance.
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Let Us Learn from the Mistakes of Others: GT350 T-bones GT3 at VIR - Senor_Taylor - 07-06-2019
How often does the person ruining everything offer up some kind of compensation?
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Let Us Learn from the Mistakes of Others: GT350 T-bones GT3 at VIR - D_Eclipse9916 - 07-06-2019
(07-06-2019, 05:45 PM)Senor_Taylor Wrote: How often does the person ruining everything offer up some kind of compensation?
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First rule of track driving you know...cliffs and all that jazz.
Second, it’s a slippery downhill to ever suggest compensation. If the driver chooses to do so he should keep it in private as this should not be standard fare.
RE: Let Us Learn from the Mistakes of Others: GT350 T-bones GT3 at VIR - Apoc - 07-06-2019
I've almost blacked out driving North Course in the summer. I was leading the race and started missing apexes, but thought I was just fatigued. A few laps later the blackness started to close in from my peripheral vision and a few corners later I'd blown the braking zone at the top of Roller Coaster, much like this video, and was off-roading down the hill at a considerable pace. The car was mostly fine, but it was shocking how I'd lost the ability to process what was happening to me (I'm sure leading the race didn't help).
I'm not saying that's what happened here, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and not assume he's incompetent based on a single video.
RE: Let Us Learn from the Mistakes of Others: GT350 T-bones GT3 at VIR - rherold9 - 07-06-2019
(07-06-2019, 07:20 PM)Apoc Wrote: I've almost blacked out driving North Course in the summer. I was leading the race and started missing apexes, but thought I was just fatigued. A few laps later the blackness started to close in from my peripheral vision and a few corners later I'd blown the braking zone at the top of Roller Coaster, much like this video, and was off-roading down the hill at a considerable pace. The car was mostly fine, but it was shocking how I'd lost the ability to process what was happening to me (I'm sure leading the race didn't help).
I'm not saying that's what happened here, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and not assume he's incompetent based on a single video.
Seems like he has deleted his YouTube. I'm sure he has received quite the backlash. I'm not stating incompetence from one video. Too bad you can't watch the others now.
I too have experienced mental fatigue. I'm no perfect driver. I have also literally pulled off track on 3 separate occasions for it, but I noticed it and decided I'd take a break that session
RE: Let Us Learn from the Mistakes of Others: GT350 T-bones GT3 at VIR - Evan - 07-06-2019
(07-06-2019, 07:20 PM)Apoc Wrote: I've almost blacked out driving North Course in the summer. I was leading the race and started missing apexes, but thought I was just fatigued. A few laps later the blackness started to close in from my peripheral vision and a few corners later I'd blown the braking zone at the top of Roller Coaster, much like this video, and was off-roading down the hill at a considerable pace. The car was mostly fine, but it was shocking how I'd lost the ability to process what was happening to me (I'm sure leading the race didn't help).
I'm not saying that's what happened here, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and not assume he's incompetent based on a single video.
Shit that's scary.
I bought a coolsuit as a luxury/comfort item, never thought of it as safety gear.
Has anyone come close to getting that hot in a street car though? You really don't get nearly as hot in a street car as you do in a gutted racecar wearing a Nomex suit that would keep you toasty outside in January.
Everyone is different I guess, that guy definitely wasn't thinking straight when he moved offline and drove through the marbles into the grass
Let Us Learn from the Mistakes of Others: GT350 T-bones GT3 at VIR - D_Eclipse9916 - 07-06-2019
(07-06-2019, 09:59 PM)Evan Wrote:(07-06-2019, 07:20 PM)Apoc Wrote: I've almost blacked out driving North Course in the summer. I was leading the race and started missing apexes, but thought I was just fatigued. A few laps later the blackness started to close in from my peripheral vision and a few corners later I'd blown the braking zone at the top of Roller Coaster, much like this video, and was off-roading down the hill at a considerable pace. The car was mostly fine, but it was shocking how I'd lost the ability to process what was happening to me (I'm sure leading the race didn't help).
I'm not saying that's what happened here, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and not assume he's incompetent based on a single video.
Shit that's scary.
I bought a coolsuit as a luxury/comfort item, never thought of it as safety gear.
Has anyone come close to getting that hot in a street car though? You really don't get nearly as hot in a street car as you do in a gutted racecar wearing a Nomex suit that would keep you toasty outside in January.
Everyone is different I guess, that guy definitely wasn't thinking straight when he moved offline and drove through the marbles into the grass
While we are on the subject of coolsuits/driver comfort...
I literally blacked out, puked all over and had to have an ekg and ambulance ride at the racetrack before. Heat stroke/exhaustion isn’t funny during a race (and the corresponding panic attack moments before black out despite never having a panic attack in my life).
Mine was a mechanical where my alternator failed during a 100+ degree race and I turned off all systems to try to “get through” (including turning off power steering/cool suit/manual brakes on a car with aero and wide sticky tires). Listen to your body; it gives you plenty of warnings. I still to this day remember the feeling of helplessness being trapped in that car when it died and the air becoming so hot/thick I couldn’t swallow air.
Scaring the shit out of your wife/yourself and having to rely on friends to pack up your trailer/car will humble you on your own capabilities.
RE: Let Us Learn from the Mistakes of Others: GT350 T-bones GT3 at VIR - Apoc - 07-06-2019
(07-06-2019, 09:59 PM)Evan Wrote:(07-06-2019, 07:20 PM)Apoc Wrote: I've almost blacked out driving North Course in the summer. I was leading the race and started missing apexes, but thought I was just fatigued. A few laps later the blackness started to close in from my peripheral vision and a few corners later I'd blown the braking zone at the top of Roller Coaster, much like this video, and was off-roading down the hill at a considerable pace. The car was mostly fine, but it was shocking how I'd lost the ability to process what was happening to me (I'm sure leading the race didn't help).
I'm not saying that's what happened here, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and not assume he's incompetent based on a single video.
Shit that's scary.
I bought a coolsuit as a luxury/comfort item, never thought of it as safety gear.
Has anyone come close to getting that hot in a street car though? You really don't get nearly as hot in a street car as you do in a gutted racecar wearing a Nomex suit that would keep you toasty outside in January.
Everyone is different I guess, that guy definitely wasn't thinking straight when he moved offline and drove through the marbles into the grass
It was my "I'm a reasonable person, so why the fuck do other people make such stupid mistakes?" moment. You honestly don't understand what's happening - just confused. I've also ended up in the back of an ambulance at Summit due to heat exhaustion, but I'm pretty sure I pulled myself for that one. Still, it's easy to get wrapped up in what's happening on track and ignore all the signs until it's too late.
This guy looks more like your garden variety fuck up based on speed outpacing skill + fade --- although nothing he did appears unsafe, per se. I think this rennlist comment sums it up. Without the shunt into a GT3, blowing the braking zone is just a fun grass cutting video many of us have made over the years.
He braked a little before the 1 marker (compared to before the 2 marker in previous laps), which was just too late for his speed and car. The penalty for braking too late at the end of the back straight is especially severe, because you can't make up for the late braking towards the crest of the hill, where the car gets lighter as the vertical curvature becomes less favorable, the benefit of gravity goes away as the track flattens, and the track bends left (which means some of the grip needs to be used for turning, at the expense of braking). I've always erred on the side of caution in this braking zone, too scary to attempt to do otherwise.
Sucks the guy lost his GT3 for no fault of his own, though. I'm not aware of any money changing hands in our incidents, other than maybe some relatively small concession. We had track insurance off and on in the early days. The cost of a season of racing was never worth it and we'd seen some cars get totaled by complete bonehead moves by other drivers. We assumed we could fix most and afford to walk away in the worst of the worst. I had the roof cut off my car very early on to get me on a stretcher, so I sacrificed speed pretty much entire racing career out of fear of wadding my car. Can't imagine taking a GT3.
RE: Let Us Learn from the Mistakes of Others: GT350 T-bones GT3 at VIR - ScottyB - 07-08-2019
G.Irish Wrote:You can see him looking down at his lap timer a few moments before so maybe he just didn't refocus.
incredibly hard to watch. if i had to guess, he was fixated on his lap time/speedo trying to make up for botching his run through the esses earlier in the lap. just a total miscalculation in how long he had his mind off the track.
what run group was he considered to be in? i.e. 2,3, instructor level etc? potentially another data point to where some cars are literally just too fast to be in the hands of anyone on track in a solo situation below a very high group level.
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:Heat stroke/exhaustion isn’t funny
i didn't consider the timing of the video but if its in the middle of the summer it wouldn't surprise me this had something to do with it.
as someone who doesn't handle heat well (horrific irony considering where i live) and has got some similar stories to DJ and Chris from playing soccer/riding bikes in the heat and ending up on the ground...your brain just starts not making sense of stuff. i wouldn't be surprised if he was starting to zone out due to exhaustion.
RE: Let Us Learn from the Mistakes of Others: GT350 T-bones GT3 at VIR - Kaan - 07-08-2019
his seat is loose on the first lap you see of the video... should have never been out there and/or should have pulled it in. you can hear it rattling around!
Also in the first lap you can see he CONSTANTLY looking down. it become pronounced when you actually see him look for a mirror, look straight, then notice what looking down is at this angle.... he was constantly looking down and then down and to his right on the back straight just before he missed the braking zone.
at what point does 160mph become so normal that you miss that brake zone?!?!?!