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+--- Thread: The M3 Value Proposition is on Life Support (/showthread.php?tid=11847)
The M3 Value Proposition is on Life Support - G.Irish - 02-06-2019
I saw a M3 CS on the road the other day and was like, 'man that looks good'. When I got home I checked the price...$100k?! Oof. I checked cars.com to see how many are available and there's something like 400 new M3 and M4 CS's for sale nationwide, some at 15% discounts. And supposedly only 600-800 of each were made for the US, meaning as much as 30% of the run for 2018 is still sitting unsold.
The first car that keeps coming to mind when I think about the M4 of any trim is the GT350. Now for 40% less than the M4 CS you get a car with 65 more horsepower, that has a vastly more entertaining engine, and a passable interior. Why then the M4 (CS)? If you want even more power you can go with the ZL1 or even the ZL1 1LE.
Thinking back 10-15 years ago, the M3 was usually comparable to the Mustang/Camaro on horsepower and won out on handling, refinement, fit and finish, and design. Now, even the base Mustang GT/Camaro SS makes as much power as a M3/M4. And the pony cars can get around corners pretty well now.
If you move up to the ultimate hardcore M4, the GTS, it's still basically twice the cost and can't really outrun either the GT350R or ZL1 1LE. I think the US only got about 300 GTS's and now even Enthusiast Auto Group is selling a GTS with 5000 miles for 30% off. Consider that Ford made easily 20 times as many GT350's and they are definitely not trading at that big a discount.
Even for a BMW fan it just gets harder and harder to justify the M3/M4 or the M2 when you can get such a smoking deal from Ford and GM. To me, the M car value proposition has just been obliterated. BMW seems to be just skipping along, totally oblivious to that fact. Doesn't seem like the next M3/M4 is going to be any different.
And it's a shame. I would've been happy to buy another M3 but even looking at what they have planned for the next version I have a hard time making the case for the M3. Are we truly at the point where BMW has 'lost it' (like has been said for the last 15 years)?
RE: The M3 Value Proposition is on Life Support - Apoc - 02-06-2019
(02-06-2019, 02:43 PM)G.Irish Wrote: Even for a BMW fan it just gets harder and harder to justify the M3/M4 or the M2 when you can get such a smoking deal from Ford and GM.
No, it's not... at least for me, anyway. There is nothing about Ford or GM styling that interests me.
I do miss the days there where wasn't a 1 through 8 Series though. Bring back the days of odd numbered series.
RE: The M3 Value Proposition is on Life Support - Beej - 02-06-2019
You make a pretty valid argument, but I'd also say that value isn't exactly what a lot of M3 buyers prioritize.
Styling and seeing them a few dozen times a day turns me off a bit from Mustangs/Camaros.
RE: The M3 Value Proposition is on Life Support - BLINGMW - 02-06-2019
"Value proposition"?! There's no more value in a brand new sports car than there is value in a diamond ring.
RE: The M3 Value Proposition is on Life Support - G.Irish - 02-06-2019
Yeah I would say that performance:dollar ratio is not the top priority for the typical M3 buyer, it's just that this has gotten so bad that it's hard to ignore. When you're talking 100 grand for a M3 that gets it's lunch money taken by somewhat comparable cars costing half as much it makes you not want to open the pocketbook. The CS trim was supposed to be the type of limited trim that sells out before it even hits the dealership, yet a bunch of them are sitting around collecting dust.
If there was an emotional appeal to the car to make up for the numbers, things might be ok. The car looks pretty good, but not twice-the-price-sexy. The engine is just average in the current market. I don't hate the S55, but it's not the type of engine that makes you lust after a car. The ol' S65 V8 was/is something I can fap to. The 8000 rpm S54 was special. The S55 needs auditory trickery to mask its flatulence.
If the M3 were cheaper, none of this would be that big of a deal, it's just that they're eye-wateringly expensive. And they don't hold their value particularly well, so that makes the cost of ownership that much higher.
RE: The M3 Value Proposition is on Life Support - BLINGMW - 02-06-2019
The 911 Carrera S doesn't look much different than the 911 GT2 RS, and both are too fast to thrash on the street, but one is $100k and the other is $300k.
RE: The M3 Value Proposition is on Life Support - G.Irish - 02-06-2019
I've actually been thinking a bit about that too. How big of a price gap between the base model and the high performance model is too much? The Mustang GT500 will probably also be 3-times the cost of a base Ecoboost. But that probably won't be a problem given the 700+ hp. But would people buy a Mustang that costs 4x, or 5x the price? I guess if it had performance to match, but I think the upper limit is when it gets close to the price of junior supercars (R8, 570S, Huracan).
With the GT2RS, it is every bit as fast as the other supercars in that price range, and it's limited in production so that helps. I think the other thing is, that even the base 911 is a luxury sports car. If the base model was an econo car, more people might turn their nose up at it. I also think that to a degree, 911 guys kinda like that it's a bit under the radar.
RE: The M3 Value Proposition is on Life Support - *insertusernamehere* - 02-07-2019
Yeah BMW kinda sucks if you're buying it new. They also just don't have the overall "oooohh aaahhh" appeal anymore.