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Because Racecar: Current Popular NASA-MA TT/W2W Classes - Printable Version

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Because Racecar: Current Popular NASA-MA TT/W2W Classes - rherold9 - 04-05-2017

Everyone knows I enjoy driving slow cars, spending stupid money on them, second guessing myself, and struggle making decisions on what I want to do. So, I thought I'd make a thread on current classes that are popular. I'm hoping this will make people like me or new students who don't know about racing and wondering what cars to buy can make a decent decision on what cars to purchase. Disclaimer I'm still a noob so bear with me. I also don't know what I want to do in TT/Racing area. The class popularity can change by event/over a season drastically if cars break, people run dry on money, etc...

Basic Cost To Go Racing (W2W safety gear cost, common wear items, most expensive items constantly needing to be replaced, etc...):

This section will include basic things and give a range of cost with example of specific cost from personal experience. Please add more to the list if deemed necessary.

NASA Required Safety Gear for W2W:
  • Full cage (see NASA CCR for current requirements) - I (Ryan) would recommend adding footwell protection by the pedals. It's a spot a lot of people I feel like miss after working tech for a bit. Cost: ~$5,000?
  • Fire-resistant racing suit, Recommended SFI 3.2/A5 or FIA 8856-2000 Cost: $400-2500
  • SA-rated helmet, Cost: $180-2000
  • HANS (other head & neck restraints may be approved, check CCR), Cost: $500-1000
  • Balaclava under helmet, Cost: ~$70
  • Gloves, Cost: $80-200
  • Nomex socks, Cost: $20-70
  • Fire-resistant shoes, Cost: $100-400
  • 5+ point harness with recent manufacture date (for exact age, see CCR), Cost: $180-400
  • Fun fact - a racing seat is not technically required although you should have one. Get a halo seat. Any racing seat has to be within specs (again, see the CCR) although some that are out of spec can have a back brace added. Halo Seat Cost: $1000-2000, Non-Halo Seat Cost: $500-1500
  • Center net is required if you do not have a halo seat, Cost: $100-150
  • Window net, Cost: $50-100
  • Fire extinguisher OR fire system, Cost: $500 or $2000?
  • Electrical kill switch, DIY Cost: $100-200?, Shop Cost: $500?

Optional but highly recommended safety gear:
Time Trial is a popular option with very few restrictions on what type of cars can be out and competing. As such, safety requirements are that of HPDE. It's easy to have some really shitty safety setups as a result. So then, a few TT and HPDE safety thoughts:
  • This shit is a system. Do it right.
  • Either leave your interior 100% stock with factory items (seats, 3-point seatbelts, airbags) or do a "basic" safety package
  • "Basic" means seats (expired is OK), 5/6 point harnesses (again, expired is OK), and a roll bar. No harness bars.
  • Make sure the holes in the seat back are at the right height for your shoulders, to allow a safe angle for the shoulder harnesses to approach. Check the NASA CCR for some good pictures/guidelines (Schroth has a good set as well if you Google)
  • Racing seats mean you need to have side/bottom mounts and floor mounts for your car. Consider that cost.
  • Whatever safety setup you have on the driver's side should be mirrored on the passenger side. Don't get your side all safety'd up and leave the passenger side stock. That's a great way to never get an instructor in your car.
  • A lot of this can be picked up (relatively) cheap as expired items that racers have to upgrade every few years.


Common wear items:
  • Brake pads and rotors, some cars eat pads and rotors faster than others
  • Tires, if you want to be really competitive or have a lot of money you will be replacing race tires every couple of weekends

Recommended season maintenance or things to look out for:

These will not 100% work for everyone. Some cars will run hotter. Some cars will burn more fluid or overheat fluid. Some cars will need to be less maintained. Just pay attention to the fluids, read online forums of when people do maintenance and replace when necessary. This maintenance guide will also help you spot possible problematic issues that could save you and your car from a big wreck or major break down.
  • Replace differential/transmission/cooling fluid at least once a season
  • Replace oil and filter at least twice a season
  • Bleed brakes at least twice a season
  • Flush brake fluid once a season
  • Check brake lines when doing brakes or changing wheels/tires
  • Flush radiator water once a season (yes just water, do not run anti-freeze on a TT or race car)
  • Inspect all other fluids (power steering, etc...) at least twice a season for wear
  • Check torque on commonly removed bolts to ensure everything is tight
  • Check oil level at least once a track day, it will help spot engine problems in advance

As a generic statement, the faster you go the more expensive it is. This is usually the case 90% of the time but doesn't mean that's always the case. For example, HC is usually less expensive to buy into than let's say GTS3. e36 GTS cars can go from 20k-40k range right now. e46 GTS cars are looking 50-70k. While you can pick up a HC2 car for 7k-12k.

Basic Classing Overview:

Time Trials - (TT):

NASA Time Trial (NASA TT) is an automobile road course competition series focused on time
trial style competition. This is not W2W racing so it's not a competition of who finishes first after a race period of time but who has the fastest lap time after a time period (~15 minutes). Driving in TT requires a license which is approved by the regional TT director:

1) Successfully completing a NASA HPDE 4 event, or current NASA Competition or
Provisional Race License, or current Competition Race or TT license with various other
organizations at the discretion of the TT Director, or an extensive verifiable driver history of
open passing road course events or competitions with other reputable organizations (may include
former racers without a current competition license, etc.) at the discretion of the TT Director and
run group leader.
2) Exhibiting knowledge of the NASA TT rules, and understanding of the consequences of noncompliance.
3) Exhibiting understanding of the nature of NASA TT including the spirit of cooperation that is
required between drivers on the track, and the high standard of driving performance and safety
that is expected.
4) Exhibiting knowledge of the technical and safety inspection process

There are a total of nine NASA TT competition classes. The classes are: TTU (unlimited); TT1, TT2, TT3, TT4 (based on Adjusted Wt/Hp Ratio); and TTC, TTD, TTE, TTF (based on Base classing and Modification Points). In addition, there are two classes (G & H) that are listed for purposes of base classing only (TTC-TTF competition vehicles only). There will be no competition in either TTG or TTH.

The classing rules for TT vehicles mirror those for the Super Touring/Super Unlimited and Performance Touring race cars. So, any car legal for a ST/SU or PT race class will also be legal in the corresponding TT class. The classes “map” to each other as follows:
  • TTU = Super Unlimited
  • TT1= ST1, “Adjusted Wt/HP Ratio” equal to, or greater than, 6.00:1
  • TT2= ST2, “Adjusted Wt/HP Ratio” equal to, or greater than, 8.00:1
  • TT3= ST3, “Adjusted Wt/HP Ratio” equal to, or greater than, 10.00:1
  • TT4 = ST4, “Adjusted Wt/HP Ratio” equal to, or greater than, 12.00:1
  • TTC = PTC
  • TTD = PTD
  • TTE = PTE
  • TTF = PTF

Based on last seasons results. Typical cars that usually run in TT classing at Mid-Atlantic are below.

TTF:
  • NA 1.6L Miata
  • BMW E36 318, 323, 325
  • Most any N/A FWD econobox (Sentra, Mazda3, Civic, Integra, etc...)

TTE:
  • NA/NB Miata
  • BMW E36 except M3, E30 all
  • Acura/Honda Integra, Civic, etc...

TTD:
  • BMW E36 All
  • FRS/BRZ/86
  • Acura/Honda Integra, Civic, S2K, etc...
  • RX8
  • BMW Z4

TTC:
  • HC2 prepped Integra, Civic, S2000, etc...
  • BRZ/FRS/86
  • BMW E36 All

TT4:

TT3:

TT2:

TT1:

TTU:

Wheel to Wheel - (W2W):

Your first step to racing is acquiring your provisional license. It has similar requirements to getting you TT license but with a little more depth. After your provisional you will move to your competition license if you stick with a clean record for 3 race days? So, two weekends worth of racing I believe?

13.1 Issuance of a NASA Provisional License
NASA Provisional Licenses are issued from the NASA Regional Office, and are only honored at events hosted
by the Region of issuance. To be considered for a Provisional License, the driver must complete one of the
following conditions:
13.1.1 NASA licensing program:
1. Four days on track with an Instructor; the last two (2) days in a race car with a current annual inspection
sticker.
2. Pass a written test and a technical compliance demonstration.
3. Approval of the Licensing Instructor.
4. Driver’s attire must meet the NASA minimum standards for racing [RefSad15.17)]
5. Submit a copy of their driver’s license.
6. Submit a copy of their Physical Examination form.
7. Submit the appropriate fee.
Note: The first two days of licensing school may be waived with the approval of the Regional Director for drivers
with prior track experience.

Lightning:

SPEC Miata:

Eligible vehicles are all 90-05 Miata's (NA/NB). There is a specification table for each year in the spec miata rules found on the NASA rules website along with all allowed modification information

SPEC E30:

Only 1984-1991 BMW manufactured non M E30 chassis automobiles, as made available by BMW in the United
States through its authorized dealer network are eligible, with the following restrictions listed in the rules

Vehicles with automatic transmissions or four-wheel drive are not eligible. Eligible vehicles include E30 cars
originally built as a 318i, 318is, 325, 325E,325i, 325is or 325 Convertible, provided they contain the Spec E30 eligible
drive train from a car originally built as a 325i or 325is.

SPEC 3:

MODEL - 325i & 325is
FACTORY CODE - E36
ELIGIBLE PROD. YEARS - 1993-1995
FACTORY BHP - 189
FACTORY WEIGHT - 3090
MINIMUM WEIGHT - 2850
LBS/BHP - 15.08
FINAL DRIVE RATIO - 3.15:1

Honda Challenge:

Most Honda/Acura vehicles. Engine swaps are allowed on every vehicle. Engine swapped cars are limited to weight/power. All cars are also limited to weight/power. H4, H2, and H1 are the classing. For example, H2 has limited, factory, and restricted prepared vehicles of different types (engines, cars, etc...) that can compete together.

See rules page for a lot more information.

944 SPEC:

Eligible vehicles are 1983-1988 Porsche 944, Normally Aspirated, 2479 cc, eight valve engine 1987-1988 Porsche 924S, 2479 cc, eight valve engine

944-SPEC may utilize any year chassis in the above eligible models as well as the 1987-1988 944S and 1989 944. No other 944 or 924 type chassis may be used to build up a 944-SPEC. In all cases body work, engine, transmission, engine electrical and suspension components must conform to the list of eligible models and to the modifications expressly listed in these rules.

Performance Touring:

Same rules as TT I believe as mentioned above just add required safety gear and go. Classes are PTF through PTC

Thunder:

American Iron:

Eligible Manufacturers/Models/Configurations
a) All 1960 through present, American-made sedan vehicles/body styles certified by the United States
Department of Transportation for street use at their date of manufacture. (OEM and aftermarket “Body in
White” type vehicle shells are allowed provided the body style is the same as original DOT manufacture.)
b) 100-inch wheel base minimum.
c) Front engine.
d) Rear wheel drive
e) Solid rear axle or OEM independent rear suspension (IRS)*
* See Rule 6.1.3
f) No full tube frame chassis conversions will be allowed.*
*See Rule 7.3.3
g) Vehicle must retain its stock front clip, floorpan, and subframe, but certain modifications are allowed
per the rules.
h) “OEM” for purposes of these rules is defined as Ford Motor Company, General Motors, or Chrysler
Group LLC. OEM also includes tuner/racer package cars such as Shelby, Roush, Saleen, Hennesey,
FR500 and others provided the vehicle body meets the rules herein OEM does not include small volume
specialty manufacturers such as Short Wheelbase (SWB) Thunderbirds where base vehicle bodies
dimensionally differ from the final OEM product.

ABS TYPE POWER LEVEL
None 9.00:1 HP / 8.50:1 TQ ratio
Any OEM ABS (except 2005+ Ford) 9.25:1 HP / 8.75:1 TQ ratio
2005+ Ford ABS Only 9.50:1 HP / 9.00:1 TQ ratio

American Iron X:

Same vehicle eligibility as American Iron. No power to weight rules. See rules page for specific modification differences.

SPEC Iron:

Eligible manufacturers, models, and base configurations are defined below:

a) 2005-2010 Ford Mustang, 4.6L 3V V8

SI has a strict 11.75:1 (11.75 pounds of vehicle weight per each horsepower) horsepower to weight ratio and 11.25:1 (11.25 pounds of vehicle weight per each foot-pound) torque to weight ratio limit as measured at the rear wheels. All cars that compete in this class may have less than the specified amount but may not exceed the 11.75:1 HP and 11.25:1 TQ ratios.

The absolute minimum weight for SI cars is 3350 pounds with driver.

Camaro/Mustang Challenge:

Eligible Manufacturers:
Ford Motor Company (Early Ford)
Eligible Early Ford makes and models:
1979-95 Ford Mustang with 5.0 V8 including 1993-1995 Cobra (1993 and 1995 Cobra R models excluded)
1979-86 Mercury Capri with 5.0 V8
1996-2004 Ford Mustang with 4.6 2valve V8
1996-04 Ford Mustang with 4.6 DOHC N/A V8* (2000 Cobra R and 2003-2004 Cobra models excluded)
* IRS cars must replace the IRS with standard Mustang live axle
General Motors (Early GM)
Eligible Early GM makes and models:
1982-92 Chevrolet Camaro (all submodels with V8 motors eg – RS, Z28 etc)
1982-92 Pontiac Firebird (all submodels with V8 motors eg Formula, Trans-Am, WS6 etc.)
General Motors (Late GM)
Eligible Late GM makes and models with 5.7L V8 motors
1993-02 Chevrolet Camaro (all F-Body models with LT-1
1993-02 Pontiac (all F-Body models with LT-1 or LS-1)

Factory Five Challenge:

Eligibility is applied in two ways. 1) The eligibility of the actual race-ready car. 2) The eligibility of the Ford Mustang (and/or parts, thereof) obtained for use in assembling the race-ready car.

Factory Five Racing Kit Car Eligibility
The term “eligible model” is used throughout this publication in context only. This is a kit-car or a “home-built” car. Therefore, a “finished car,” built according to the Factory Five instructions, these series rules, and other applicable NASA rules, is considered an “eligible model” for the series. This model shall be known as Factory Five Challenge Series Racer. (FFR part #5003)

Ford Mustang ‘Donor’ Car Eligibility
Parts from a “donor” car are required to assemble the finished race car. The term “eligible model,” found within this publication in the context of references to any parts or assemblies that is (or was) found on the donor car, should be considered a reference to the 1987 through 1993 Fox bodied Ford Mustang model with the Ford 5.0 liter (302 cubic inch) high-output 225 horsepower (factory rating) engine, unless otherwise specified.

German Touring Series(GTS):

Opposite of your typical TT/PT classing from the numbering standpoint. GTS4 for example is faster than GTS3. GTS1 is the slowest cars. Although GTS1 is still plenty fast. German Touring Series are inclusive only to:

• Audi
• BMW (including MINI)
• Mercedes-Benz
• Merkur
• NSU
• Opel
• Porsche
• Volkswagen

GTS 1 up to 2800cc
GTS2 up to 3199cc BMW S50B30 “Euro” must run in GTS3 or higher
GTS3 up to 3600cc Porsche GT3 and GT3 Cup engines must run in GTS4 or higher.
GTS4 up to 4000cc
GTS5 and GTSU unlimited.

Minimum ratio for D.O.T. Approved Tires Non-D.O.T Tires
GTSU No limit No limit
GTS5 6.6 7.2
GTS4 8.5 9.0
GTS3 11.0 12.0
GTS2 14.5 16.0
GTS1 18.5 20.0

NP01 Prototype:

The NP01 is intended to be raced in its preferred classes, NASA Prototype (NP) and
NASA Prototype Endurance (ENP). Competitors may compete as well in the appropriate
Super Unlimited (SU), Super Touring (ST) and Time Trial (TT) classes. The car must
remain in its NP01 legal configuration at all times while being driven in NASA Prototype
(NP or ENP) races and series.

SPEC E46:

The series is open to BMW E46-chassis 330 USDM models. This includes 2001-05 sedans and 2001-06 coupes. ZHP, 330xi, wagon, and convertible models are not permitted.

SPEC Z:

Year Make Model Motor Weight (lb)
03-04 Nissan 350Z VQ35DE 3100
05-06 Nissan 350Z VQ35DE 3175
07-08 Nissan 350Z VQ35HR 3325 (NISMO Included)

Super Touring:

Same rules as TT I believe as mentioned above just add required safety gear and go. Classes are ST1 through STU.

Alumni please help provide anything I've missed or admins update my post accordingly. If there is any other information you'd like to add feel free to post up. I'm hoping this will be at least updated once a season or more to keep everyone up-to-date

Popular TT classes 2017 season based off the 1st event are:


TT4 - 6 people
TT1 - 5
TT2 - 5
TTU - 4
TTC - 4
TT3 - 3


Popular W2W classes 2017 season based off the 1st event are (slower run group first aka usually less $$):

Lightning:


SPEC E30 - 22
SPEC MIATA - 21
HC2 (Honda Challenge 2) - 9
SPEC3 (e36) - 5


Thunder:


SPEC E46 - 12
CMC (Camaro/Mustang Challenge) - 10
GTS2 (German Touring Series 2) - 9
ST3 (Super Touring 3) - 8
GTS3 (German Touring Series 3) - 7
AI (American Iron) - 4
AIX (American Iron Extreme) - 4
GTS4 (German Touring Series 4) - 2


If you would like to know about where your car is placed or what classes have what cars you will want to go to the NASA - RULES site

Re: Because Racecar: Current Popular NASA-MA TT/W2W Classes - *insertusernamehere* - 04-05-2017

Who got da hookup on popcorn?

Re: Because Racecar: Current Popular NASA-MA TT/W2W Classes - rherold9 - 04-05-2017

*insertusernamehere* Wrote:Who got da hookup on popcorn?

The classic let's take a post that is somewhat helpful and try to spin it to make it a shit show. Please go elsewhere :thumbup:

Please don't insitgate even if you think it's a funny joke

Re: Because Racecar: Current Popular NASA-MA TT/W2W Classes - D_Eclipse9916 - 04-05-2017

TT1-4 are purely Power to Weight with modifiers to the power to weight.

Are you going to provide a generic outlier of costs and overview of each class? Let me know if you need any help (I am NASA-MAs director of GTS/ST with Eric Wong)

Re: Because Racecar: Current Popular NASA-MA TT/W2W Classes - rherold9 - 04-05-2017

D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:TT1-4 are purely Power to Weight with modifiers to the power to weight.

Are you going to provide a generic outlier of costs and overview of each class? Let me know if you need any help (I am NASA-MAs director of GTS/ST with Eric Wong)

That was the plan to add a little more analysis on cost (like base safety gear cost needed to W2W race). I will be adding more info over time. Be helpful if you had information already that you could add. It was just something a put together with some time I had at work. I will also be adding a small overiew

Re: Because Racecar: Current Popular NASA-MA TT/W2W Classes - rherold9 - 04-05-2017

If you have the time or want to update something. Please post first so people don't waste time working on the same information.

Re: Because Racecar: Current Popular NASA-MA TT/W2W Classes - Senor_Taylor - 04-05-2017

This is a great idea. Thank you for making this.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Re: Because Racecar: Current Popular NASA-MA TT/W2W Classes - Jake - 04-05-2017

I added safety gear info.

Re: Because Racecar: Current Popular NASA-MA TT/W2W Classes - rherold9 - 04-06-2017

Jake Wrote:I added safety gear info.

:thumbup: Thank you, if you know any of the costs like cage and fire system, etc... that I have no idea can you post an approximate amount?

I'll hopefully have some time at work to update a few things. Should have time tonight as well. I'm going to start with basic TTC-TTF classing and some common cars (using mid atlantic's season results)

Edit: Updated OP with basic TT stuff. Correct anything that needs to be added or is wrong.

Editx2: Updated OP with some costs for required gear

Editx3: Updated OP with Thunder classes

Editx4: Updated OP with Lightning classes

Re: Because Racecar: Current Popular NASA-MA TT/W2W Classes - rherold9 - 04-06-2017

If anyone knows what cars will probably run in the new TT4 through TT1 classes that would be great. I know it can be any car but if you know of cars looking to run in MA that'd be great. Other than that the OP is 90% updated with as much as I know or looked up. Please edit and fix the OP as needed. I know the information isn't 100% right or on point so looking at alumni to edit or call out things I've missed or mentioned that are wrong.

Re: Because Racecar: Current Popular NASA-MA TT/W2W Classes - Scott - 04-07-2017

rherold9 Wrote:That was the plan to add a little more analysis on cost (like base safety gear cost needed to W2W race).

Rule #1 of racing cars is to never keep track of what you've actually spent on the race car

Re: Because Racecar: Current Popular NASA-MA TT/W2W Classes - rherold9 - 04-07-2017

Scott Wrote:Rule #1 of racing cars is to never keep track of what you've actually spent on the race car

It may hurt on the inside or stop people to see how much you've spent or are going to but it's a good idea to get a base safety gear cost so you know what you are going to get yourself into. If seeing the costs inhibit someone from racing they shouldn't have been trying to anyways.