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+--- Thread: Ok...Super 60?? (/showthread.php?tid=1138)
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Ok...Super 60?? - Jeff - 10-07-2004
I can get a full super 60 turbo kit for my 2.2 Omni for $900. "60 trim" I believe is the term to describe this. It comes with injectors, a MAP sensor, and a turbo, the computer is an extra $150. ThatÔÇÖs Mopar, with a dealer discount
. Should I do it now, before rebuilding the engine and put it back for later then add it when I swap out the motor or should I just put the motor back in with the factory turbo and run it, just to make sure my theory is right. If you arenÔÇÖt familiar with my project it is a 2.2 (or 2.5 not sure, bad markings) Chrysler Turbo 1 from an 89 Lebaron being rebuilt and transplanted into an 89 Omni (factory N/A car). Mopar recommends off-road use only; I think it deals with the lag associated with this turbo. I'm torn between doing this or building up slowly, trying different variations. I know no one here is a specialist on these cars but from the general standpoint, on a college budget, what would be the best way to go???
- ScottyB - 10-07-2004
i'd rebuild it and then plug that turbo to it later.
off road use is the term manufacturers use to avoid having to meet certan regulations for road use, like emmisions and junk. i has nothing associated with the performance of the product itself. for instance, i believe some suspension parts sold by STi are labeled for off road use even though they are clearly for track use.
- Jewels - 10-07-2004
I would take a stock T3 off of a Turbo I 2.2, and hybridize a T04E compressor/housing on the comp side. Then buy the MAP, Injectors, and an AFC.
Then sit back while ass is kicked.
(and if you need a spare Chrysler T3, I have one I'm not going to use any more. I took the liberty of taking it apart, I will sell it to you for what I've got in it.)
- Mike - 10-07-2004
damn she's cool.
i'd rebuild before boosting...
- .RJ - 10-07-2004
Why do you want a super 60?
Little engines + big turbos = dyno queens.
- Jeff - 10-07-2004
I found out about the "off road use" thing. ItÔÇÖs because the turbo is not the best performer in daily driving, itÔÇÖs more of a drag race only thing according to moparforums.com. I know they are the guys to ask but I like asking of people locally. Jewels, define T3 for me. As in the old Garrett that was on the 85-87 models?? My 89 turbo does push air, the motor runs but it won't take boost I think it is a vacuum problem. The 89 was a better design due to a change in the intake and the fast spooling small turbo, but it had low boost levels
, is that what your solution would fix? Anyways, I'm working on my theory, I agree with MJC I'm gonna rebuild first, but I'll be in touch about that turbo!
- KPWSerpiente - 10-08-2004
Don't listen to these kids. Get a big turbo*.
-T
*after you rebuild the engine.
- Andy - 10-08-2004
College Budget = Plug Turbo in, blow up motor eventually, then rebuild. You were planning on doing it anyways except now when you take your block to the machine shop, you'll have a cool story.
- Jewels - 10-08-2004
MichaelJComputer Wrote:damn she's cool.
i'd rebuild before boosting...
If you are refering to me.... I'm not that cool. Cause it wasn't me that posted that. Rex apparently didn't look to see if I was logged in on my computer. So really I'd love to take the credit of being cool, but basically I can identify a turbo, not take it apart.
- Mike - 10-08-2004
Awww damn!
You're cool anyway.
- Jeff - 10-08-2004
I'm still interested in the turbo no matter who has it!!! I'm in a quest for budget power without making to much work for myself later. I can charge all my parts to the shop and pay for them later but I don't want to have too big a tab, my dad doesnÔÇÖt like that very much. So, I'm still on the smaller cheaper turbo route because I wanna use all Mopar Performance TII internals to make it more stable, which are very pricey. ItÔÇÖs important to have a strong bass to boost, to avoid those big machine shop bills
I made a funny...bass boost.One more thing, I heard I can remove my balance shafts to make more power, what are balance shafts (I know what they do, but not how they are physically attached to the engineÔÇÖs internals.) and is this true? IÔÇÖm assuming all 4-bangers have them. IÔÇÖm hopefully gonna hoist out my turbo next weekend
let the games begin.
- ScottyB - 10-08-2004
i'm not sure where balance shafts are on your engine. but i do know that you will most likely gain a few horses from their removal. for example, on the new sentra's, their balance shafts are under the crank, in the oil pan. they make alot of drag when they spin. removing them gains a few horses with a jim wolf technology kit.
i would assume your balance shafts are low in the block too, but assuming makes an ass out of me.....and, well, me.
- CaptainHenreh - 10-08-2004
TurboOmni08 Wrote:I'm still interested in the turbo no matter who has it!!!Yeah, it's mine. I was going to let Mike stand by his statement, because I wager that julie COULD disassemble a turbo, because if it hadn't been for the siezed exhaust housing bolts requiring an oxyacetalyne torch to remove, a monkey could do it. But my turbo is an early T3 off a Lebaron, NOT one of those tiny, pansy-ass mitsubishi turbos. This one actually has potential. The "revised intake" meant an intercooler, which is why the small Mitsu can make the same power, as the early turbos were non-intercooled, and in fact had the throttle body BEFORE the turbo. Damnedest thing I've ever seen. If your throttle ever stuck open...
Anyway, it had a little bit of shaft play, so I disassembled it in preparation for a rebuild. (A T3 kit off Ebay is like, 60 bucks, and that's with 360 degree thrust bearings) I also did some research on T3/T4 hybrids, and found that really all a T3/T4 is is a T3 exhaust, a T3 center section (which is actually the same, t3 or t4) a T04 backing plate, and a T04 compressor. (you can even port the T3 comp housing and use that, if you want)
So that's what I had planned to do. Plans change. So now I have this turbo and this enormous intercooler, and nothing to put it on. Sad. Sell to you cheap.
I also have the stock exhaust manifold and 02 housing. I was going to practice welding on it, but hey, if you can use it, I throw it in fo free.TurboOmni08 Wrote:One more thing, I heard I can remove my balance shafts to make more power, what are balance shafts (I know what they do, but not how they are physically attached to the engineÔÇÖs internals.) and is this true? IÔÇÖm assuming all 4-bangers have them.
You can probably check out HowThingsWork for a lesson on balance shafts. They're usually connected only by a belt. Most inline 4's have them. Some, of course, do not. The early GM Quad Four is a horrific example. It didn't get balance shafts until 1995, and basically sucked up to that point. It didn't rev, it shook like a diesel, it was awful.
Now, the reason I made the distinction about inline fours, is that all H-4's, a'la Subarus, are naturally balanced, and do not require balance shafts. In fact, all H engines are balanced this way. I-5's normally have a small balance shaft, and I-6s do not need them, as they are naturally balanced as well.
If you were going to remove your balance shaft(s) I would make DAMN sure that your crank, rods, and pistons were both light and perfectly balanced. Otherwise, your bearings are going to pay for your spirited driving. Me, I'd leave it in. You don't have much to gain by removing them. On an N/A car, I'd be more inclined to try and get around them, but on a TC car, I mean shit. There's many easier ways to get the 3HP or less it takes to spin a balance shaft.
(oh, and Scotty, I think I'd sooner remove on of my balls than remove the balance shaft on a QR25. The things got a what, 100mm stroke? Jesus. People are stupid, I don't care what JWT)
- .RJ - 10-08-2004
<--- No balance shafts and 8800 rpm of screaming vtec
- Jeff - 10-08-2004
The revised intake was the throttle body change you were talking about, this is a non-intercooled version that had the TB after the turbo. Anyways, give me an E-mail with the price for the lot, I don't have much but we'll see where we are at with it. Also, what kind of car did you have that you were using this stuff on?
- Ryan T - 10-08-2004
boost, blow, rebuild, boost
- KPWSerpiente - 10-08-2004
Quote:pansy-ass mitsubishi turbos
Uh huh...we'll see how your t3 stacks up against a 20g in some side by side comparisons.
Also....there are other reasons to remove balance shafts other than the pretend power gain.....on a dsm if your balance shaft belt breaks it can hit the timing belt which can result in a few valves bending...not a pretty picture. So uh, check on that with your car.
-T
- Jeff - 10-08-2004
T's car is P.I.M.P. ThatÔÇÖs all I can say about that. Anyways, this is to anybody but I think we know who will answer. Is there any relationship between the DSM 2.0 and the old 2.2/2.5 platform? I know a 2.0 DOHC neon head will bolt up, but I'm not clear on the progression of the block styles and the relations between them.
- CaptainHenreh - 10-09-2004
KPWSerpiente Wrote:Quote:pansy-ass mitsubishi turbos
Uh huh...we'll see how your t3 stacks up against a 20g in some side by side comparisons.
-T
I don't remember ever saying that a 20G was pansyass. What I did say was that the mitsubishi turbos that came on the later Chrysler engines, were pansy ass.
TD0-4 ?12C?
It's a tiny freakign turbo, and my T3 dwarfs it in comparison.
Now, as for the progression of the engines...I have no idea.
- KPWSerpiente - 10-09-2004
Quote:But my turbo is an early T3 off a Lebaron, NOT one of those tiny, pansy-ass mitsubishi turbos.
No...it doesn't sound like you limited yourself to a specific mitsu turbo...it sounds like all of them are pansyass.
Quote:Is there any relationship between the DSM 2.0 and the old 2.2/2.5 platform? I know a 2.0 DOHC neon head will bolt up, but I'm not clear on the progression of the block styles and the relations between them.
The DSM block, as in the 4g63, bears no resemblance to the chrysler blocks you are talking about...it is a mitusbishi engine.
Now the chrysler blocks that came in the n/t 2nd gen eclipses, the dohc 2.0, aka the 420a is also probably not very similar.
I was reading up on the 2.2 used in the turbo1 and turbo2 and it sounds like that is a pretty good block. I know you talked about the lotus head found on the turbo3 and that seemd like it would be hard to find. The dohc head of the 420a, as you said, will bolt up, but I don't know how easy that is to do.
If you have th 2.5 liter turbo1 that came out in 89 it is rated at 150hp. Intercooling it and increasing the boost a bit is probably going to net a big gain. Same thing if you have the 2.2.
I think whichever block you have is going to be fine. The sohc head might be limiting....but build it and b00st big.....that will sovle the problem.
-T
*edit
What you should really look into is it the current 2.4 turbo chrysler engines...that would be a bad ass swap.