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+--- Thread: BMW i3/i8 or other electric motor vehicles (/showthread.php?tid=10685)
BMW i3/i8 or other electric motor vehicles - Cody - 04-29-2014
So as some of you know I've been working with BMW to help with the launch of the BMW i3 on the West Coast. There's a lot of stuff I'm itching to talk about but shouldn't really say anything yet so I wanted to open this thread for a technical discussion of the cars. I've driven a Tesla and also had a chance to play around with an i8 a bit (everything but drive it...). So instead of telling you guys about the cars I'd be stoked to hear any questions, concerns, or comments about the cars. I love tough questions and I might be able to fwd some stuff to the product development manager of the i brand for you guys if it's a really good one. I'm very curious to hear your input on these cars especially you BMW kids. I can also look into the schedule for the drive events on the East Coast if anyone is interested in taking an i3 for a spin.
Re: BMW i3/i8 or other electric motor vehicles - Senor_Taylor - 04-29-2014
This'll be fun.
Re: BMW i3/i8 or other electric motor vehicles - CaptainHenreh - 04-29-2014
Do you really think it's wise for Ze Germans to be making electric cars?
Re: BMW i3/i8 or other electric motor vehicles - Jake - 04-29-2014
Why the fuck can I option an i3 (or any other BMW, really) with the Technology, Sport and Premium packages (adding like $29k to the price tag) and still have to pay $800 for Harman Kardon sound?
I'm seriously butthurt over this. Their pricing is all over the place.
Also, the i3 is ugly.
Re: BMW i3/i8 or other electric motor vehicles - BLINGMW - 04-29-2014
Cody Wrote:So as some of you know I've been working with BMW to help with the launch of the BMW i3
hock: nooooooo?Cody Wrote:I can also look into the schedule for the drive events on the East Coast if anyone is interested in taking an i3 for a spin.:mrgreen: :bow: :oops: :thumbup: :vomit: *insert appropriate animated gifs here*
Um, yeah, I'm quite a bit interested!
Speaking as someone who is very much considering buying one of these later this year or early next to replace our E46, the only big question I have is about the range. I don't want the range extender motorcycle engine thing, that is cheating, and honestly a little crude.
1) Is this car going to be able to drive from botetourt to christiansburg at 70mph and run an errand or two on the way home, every day, ~80-90mi round trip, ragardless of weather, and have a little headroom so we're not having to draft trucks with the AC off or in fear of pushing it up the driveway, especially once the battery has 3 years and 60,000 miles on it? How about 5 years, 100,000 mi? I'm concerned that's a little beyond the use case it was designed for as a city car. When I do test drive one, and certianly before I buy one, I would have to find out for sure.
2) Any chance 3 years down the road BMW would release a new battery that I could install and maybe even increase the range? Honestly I don't know why, with the hole there for the range extender option, that they also don't have a "double battery" option. :dunno: Better yet, a little trailer with a battery so I can get to a Verona autocross and back. :mrgreen:
I don't care that it's ugly. *heart*
Also, if BMW would like to subsidize my purchase, make it some obnoxious color (pretty much all the colors it comes in), and put some graphics on it, I will drive this thing all over VA, laud its performance, whore it out and tow it to autocrosses (or get me that battery trailer!) at every chance I can get and sales in western VA will increase 500%. (ie, you will sell 5 more)
Re: BMW i3/i8 or other electric motor vehicles - SlimKlim - 04-29-2014
Are those flat little seats as miserably uncomfortable as they look?
Does everyone at BMW smell their own farts and proclaim how amazing and intuitive they all are at product development? I've always imagined it's something like that.
Channing what's so sinful about the range extender, and why pay $55k for one of those miserable looking little things when you could get a Chevy Volt (which is like, a whole car) for $35k that would run you around Roanoke all day on electric only, then fire up the gas motor when you're making trips down 81?
The i3 for me goes into the same bucket as the Nissan Leaf. Hideous and way too much goddamned money for the lack of practicality it offers. I could never stomach paying $40k+ for a car you can't do a road trip in.
Re: BMW i3/i8 or other electric motor vehicles - BLINGMW - 04-29-2014
also, I've decided to leave this funny picture here
![[Image: snow-tire.jpg]](http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/snow-tire.jpg)
(I was looking to see if tires were even available, and as it turns out they already are, and pretty inexpensive too)
Re: BMW i3/i8 or other electric motor vehicles - Jake - 04-29-2014
Are those like 145's?
Re: BMW i3/i8 or other electric motor vehicles - BLINGMW - 04-29-2014
SlimKlim Wrote:Channing what's so sinful about the range extender, and why pay $55k for one of those miserable looking little things when you could get a Chevy Volt (which is like, a whole car) for $35k that would run you around Roanoke all day on electric only, then fire up the gas motor when you're making trips down 81?Short, one word answer would be, *boring*.
Longer answer:
The model I want, pretty much base, is not even close to $55k.
The Volt is made by government motors. :vomit:
The Volt is another heavy, complicated hybrid, FWD sled.
I WOULD however consider the Ford Focus electric if the i3 turns out to suck. Or Tesla model E of course.
The i3 turns back the clock about 30 years on curb weight AND it's right-wheel-drive? *drool*.
Range extender makes it heavier, adds something else to maintain, and then it's still not designed for long trips. Dumb.
We'll always have another car for long trips. Or I'd rent a car for that edge case.
I have (delusional?) dreams of electric cars having the most ideal, simplest, maintenence free, last-forever drivetrain that I've been waiting for.
Roughly running the numbers (http://www.mmsports.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10903) and crossing my fingers, the i3 may not cost us a whole lot more than our current E46.
Re: BMW i3/i8 or other electric motor vehicles - HAULN-SS - 04-29-2014
You should figure out a way to get an address in WV and buy it there. You get double the federal tax incentive that way. 15 G's off!
Re: BMW i3/i8 or other electric motor vehicles - Evan - 04-29-2014
I hope the sub $200 ev lease deals come back. That makes it real tempting
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Re: BMW i3/i8 or other electric motor vehicles - Cody - 04-29-2014
First off, you guys as awesome. I love the responses. I'll list things out for you guys, Soo...
Rex- Call me crazy but yes the German's managed to make an electric car fun to drive. It's a whole different driving experience and certainly has it's perks like instant torque, what's a gas station? syndrome, and it's like uber cool and saving the earth since it's 95% recyclable. The coolest thing to me personally is the potential for the carbon fiber wrapped plastic to work it's way into the rest of the BMW line to make their fleet much lighter and more efficient as well as a new drive system like what's in the i8 essentially allowing an electric motor to torque fill the low end and complement a small turbo engine on the top end.
Jake- The i3 has the simplest option package out of any BMW. Tech is 2.5k and Park Assist 1k. Harmon Kardon is one of the four stand alone options on the car at $800. On a side note I drove an M6 today and the 3.7k Bang & Olufsen system blew my mind. It senses where you're sitting in the car and adjusts the acoustics accordingly to give you studio quality. The i3 will grow on you a little in person as far as appearance goes, I promise, maybe.. kind of? haha. It is a polarizing look but BMW engineered it that way to improve the coefficient of drag and fit in with the other cars out there (Prius, Leaf, Volt).
Channing- You're definitely asking the right questions!
1) So the battery is a 22 kwh battery with 18.8 kwh usable. The highest I've personally seen it average was when I was in Santa Barbara on a 15 minute drive or so it did 6.4 mi/kwh. So 18.8x6.4= 120.32. So my car was essentially on target to get 120 miles out of a single charge.
Here's the difference with this car. Your most efficient driving will occur in the city, due to the car's regenerative braking system capturing energy to feed back to the battery. The lows and highs BMW is saying is 70-110 miles. Our cars pretty much always average 80-100 miles. 80-100 is very safe to assume even on the highway but in your instance you'd want to be able to charge while you're at work. You have two options with that. A 110v charger (which comes with the car and you can plug it into a wall outlet) or a public station with a 220v charger (full charge in 3 hours). I can try and look up what charging stations there are in your area in the next couple days and get back to you (the car can actually find them for you, tell you the type of charger, how many, and if they're currently in use). Feel free to hit me with more questions on this.
2) The car is built on a platform design allowing BMW to switch out parts of the car i.e. battery if something new and more kick ass comes out. Cool thing about the battery, it's essentially the same as in the Nissan Leaf with improved thermal engineering. So the battery is cooled with Freon, aka, no fire risk. The battery also operates at a consistent 20 degrees Celsius, it's either cooled or heated to that point to improve efficiencies and provide consistent performance characteristics no matter how low the battery is. The battery is also built as 8 different modules with multiple cells so BMW can run diagnostics on the battery and replace individual cells instead of the whole thing. You have regular BMW warranties and a 8 year 100k warranty on the battery itself to have at minimum 70% of it's usable capacity.
Fun. Stuff.
Re: BMW i3/i8 or other electric motor vehicles - BLINGMW - 04-30-2014
Cody Wrote:but in your instance you'd want to be able to charge while you're at work. You have two options with that. A 110v charger (which comes with the car and you can plug it into a wall outlet) or a public station with a 220v charger (full charge in 3 hours). I can try and look up what charging stations there are in your area in the next couple days and get back to you (the car can actually find them for you, tell you the type of charger, how many, and if they're currently in use).That's what I figured-- no easy answer. It gets parked in a lot or garage that has no options for charging. That could change over the next couple years, but the demand around here isn't high. Sure, there's a charging station or two in christiansburg, and we could stop at a gas station and plug it in to anything in an emergency, but it sounds like the 80+mi/day is pushing it. Then 5 years later it might be as bad as 70%... I'll just have to borrow one for a day or two, please send one over.
Re: BMW i3/i8 or other electric motor vehicles - Cody - 05-02-2014
Schedule wise...
Richmond BMW May 2nd
Passport BMW suitland, MD May 3rd
BMW of Charlottesville May 14th
BMW of Alexandria May 16th
BMW of Sterling May 17th
BMW of Fairfax May 19th
Keep in mind all you need is your driver's license and be 21+ to drive
Re: BMW i3/i8 or other electric motor vehicles - BLINGMW - 05-02-2014
Thanks! Maybe I'll have to work from c'ville on the 14th....
Not shockingly, the salesman I know at the roanoke dealer confirms they aren't getting any cars, let alone having a test drive event this year.
Re: BMW i3/i8 or other electric motor vehicles - RawrImAMonster - 05-02-2014
CaptainHenreh Wrote:Do you really think it's wise for Ze Germans to be making electric cars?
Oh god I never even thought about that. What a nightmare after they're out of warranty.
I say they should focus on getting their normal electronics up to spec before making an all eletric car.
My question is: Why are BMW's (and german cars in general) such shit in the electronic reliability area? What about them makes them deteriorate so quickly with age compared to their japanese counterparts?
Edit: While that is a heavily loaded question, I really would like an answer to why their electronics hold up so poorly.
Re: BMW i3/i8 or other electric motor vehicles - Senor_Taylor - 05-05-2014
IMO I'd say the number of electronic devices crammed into the vehicle is higher with the German vehicles, so the odds of something failing are much higher.
Re: BMW i3/i8 or other electric motor vehicles - Cody - 05-12-2014
Quote:Oh god I never even thought about that. What a nightmare after they're out of warranty.
The car has your typical BMW 4 year 50k warranty. The battery is warrantied anything below 70% capacity, 8 years 100k. In California 150k 10 years.
I have no idea with the BMW electrical issues but I wouldn't be surprised if it's an area they tried to save some money on. What BMW owner doesn't like faulty trunk light codes on an e36?
Re: BMW i3/i8 or other electric motor vehicles - BLINGMW - 05-12-2014
signed up for c'ville event on the 14th :thumbup:
Re: BMW i3/i8 or other electric motor vehicles - BLINGMW - 05-15-2014
It may come as no surprise that after today's test drive I totally love the car. I in no way expect to be able to convey any useful information or review, nor could I be very critical when I felt like I was operating a vehicle from the future.
The lack of weight was quite apparent at lower speeds, turn-in was crisp, and there was plenty of grip. The only reason it didn't do a tail-out, smoky display of aggression from a hard u-turn was that I hadn't looked into turning off the traction control. Then on the highway at 75mph, it wasn't nervous like a short, light car often is; it felt like cruising in a brand new 3 series. Acceleration from a standstill was awesome-- just a strong, linear force, and merging onto the highway was more than sufficient. "Throttle" response was excellent.
The raw material look, and mix of utility and comfort in and out of the car totally work for me. The doors and chassis have no flex, while at the same time the body panels are quite flexible... everything's engineered to do what it needs to do without much fat.
![[Image: IMAG0733_zps5fc7f71e.jpg]](http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/ecpreston/IMAG0733_zps5fc7f71e.jpg)
FWIW the event was very low key. Plenty of time for me to open up every door, remove some service panels, lay on the ground and view the suspension set up and generally do whatever I wanted while nice looking women and a friendly support and sales team answered all my questions and bullshitted about 2002s and E34s and other silly boxy things.
Jury's still out on 80+ mile daily commute. From my unscientific view of the range changing as miles were covered in my 8 highway miles with AC on at 75MPH, I get the impression the rated 81 mile range is conservative and close to worst case. :dunno: I hope to be able to justify owning one and towing it to an autocross now and then. :thumbup: