E36 Experts, whats this worth?

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E36 Experts, whats this worth? - Printable Version

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E36 Experts, whats this worth? - RawrImAMonster - 10-04-2013

I've been looking for a E36 M3 Sedan recently and have found one that fits the bill for everything I'm looking for feature and mileage-wise. And it seems to be in pretty good shape based on the pictures.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.epovoauto.com/detail.aspx?id=3439765&PrefID=9749&.aspx">http://www.epovoauto.com/detail.aspx?id ... 9749&.aspx</a>

I've already contacted the dealership to see if they have any maintenance records since I know that makes a big difference on the price.

KBB says the dealership value should be around 7500. Not sure how accurate that is for these cars.

What do you all think? I think 9000 is high, but dealerships can usually be talked down a good bit on used cars.

Edit: I've already read up a good bit on all the various suspension and cooling system pieces that need to be maintained on these and am perfectly fine with doing all that work myself if need be. So hopefully I know what I'm getting myself into with one of these. If they are otherwise fairly reliable, I think one of these would make a good daily.

Re: E36 Experts, whats this worth? - D_Eclipse9916 - 10-04-2013

They are dead reliable...aluminum thermo housing/radiator and a stewart water pump + new bushings (its a freaking 15 year old car for F's sake).

Pros: Sedans hold their value better, $9000 for a clean one is not out of the realm, but isn't a steal.
Black interior
New tires

Bad: I see a crappy intake, cheap mods means probably they didnt maintain it.
Cooling system definitely needs to be replaced by looking at that condition of the expansion tank.
No heated seats

Check the Rear trailing arm pockets/upper shock tower mounts for any rips/tears and you are good to go.

I would say a solid buy if you plan on doing the cooling system immediately and change all of the fluids (typical used car stuff).

Then when you get some time, go through and replace balljoints/bushings, the car will feel like new.

Re: E36 Experts, whats this worth? - RawrImAMonster - 10-04-2013

Yeah, I figured the cooling system would need to be replaced soon after I bought it.

I do wish it had heated seats, but ultimately I would much rather have the fold down rear seats since I need something that actually has some cargo room. The trans am doesn't quite cut it in that area. Finding these two options together in a sedan with a black interior probably isn't easy, so I'm willing to live without the heated seats. I've never had them before and I've lived after all.

I'm going to call the dealership if they don't get back to me soon to get some more information and maybe drive up to check it out this weekend.

Re: E36 Experts, whats this worth? - *insertusernamehere* - 10-04-2013

Holy afjdajkd M3's hold value like crazyy...dayum

Re: E36 Experts, whats this worth? - SlimKlim - 10-04-2013

$9k doesn't seem like a crazy asking price given the mileage and apparently cleanliness of the car, the paint looks absolutely gorgeous, as does the interior. The door cards look like they are bubbling a bit, which is a massive pain in the dick to try to repair if you care about that sort of thing. Most guys just try to find entire panels in better condition or have a good interior shop rewrap and glue them.

Its actually not that bad to retrofit heated/powered seats into them, but given that the original ones are in nearly perfect condition I'd probably leave it alone. The sedan/lux seats are more comfortable than the vaders IMO.

DJ pretty much covered it, I'd just get as much information as you can about its past and give it an extremely thorough inspection. Check the brakes, shocks, and all of the bushings you can get your eyeballs on, including pulling back the trunk lining and looking at the rear shock mounts. Look for any fresh coolant and oil leaks, and check for rust under the weatherstripping for the trunk, rear quarter panels behind the wheels and along the lower edges of the body. If there is slop in the shifter (very likely) it'll be a roughly $50 fix.

Also give the throttle boot a good looking over, that ghetto-ass intake has it bent down at an unnatural angle and the material they used for those boots doesn't age gracefully.

When you drive it pay attention to any squirelly-ness from the rear end, the RTABs like to fail and give you "constantly variable rear-toe" but they aren't easy to visually inspect without a lift. Also listen for a clattering "marbles in a can" sound on start up and shut down, which would indicate failed VANOS seals. It's not an expensive repair but it is time consuming and requires cam locks and access to a bench vise.

Like DJ said I'd plan on immediately overhauling the coolant system given the look of that expansion tank, as well as changing all of the fluids and giving it a general tune up.

Chances are it will need at least a few of the things we've mentioned, but don't let it discourage you, E36s are old and half of the fun of owning one is upgrading all the shitty parts the factory used in the first place. (plastic water pump impellers, plastic thermostat housings, tissue paper rear shock mounts, overly-soft americanized suspension, etc) Keep a mental tally of every little issue with the car and use it as justification when you start negotiating the price.

If its just an incredibly solid and well maintained car and only needs a cooling system refresh to be a 100% car I might pay $8-8500 for it. If it needs more attention start working down from there. It all depends on how badly you want it and what you're willing to pay. If something seems fishy just walk away. These cars are pretty much at the bottom of their depreciation curve and they aren't exactly rare, finding a *very* clean model in the 8-9k range should be really easy.

If you aren't already you should be scouring this every morning: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?224-3-series-amp-Z-Series

Tons of clean E36s get bought and sold on there, one of the busiest enthusiasts classifieds I've ever seen.

Re: E36 Experts, whats this worth? - RawrImAMonster - 10-04-2013

SlimKlim Wrote:...

Thanks for the advice. I'll keep that open on my phone as well as some other threads and go through the checklist of stuff when I go to see it.

I'll keep an eye on those for sale forums as well. I feel like a lot of prices are higher than you would find at places other than a m3 board. That is usually the case with any enthusiast website though.

I'm hoping this one was fairly well maintained based on how nicely taken care of the paint and interior are.

Re: E36 Experts, whats this worth? - RawrImAMonster - 10-04-2013

Here are the pictures of the carfax he sent me. Looks like it hit a curb early in its life and some other minor incident.

[Image: hx2npBV.jpg]

Re: E36 Experts, whats this worth? - RawrImAMonster - 10-05-2013

They aren't willing to lower the price at all, so that ones a no go. Guess I'll keep searching.

Re: E36 Experts, whats this worth? - RawrImAMonster - 10-09-2013

For those who have been in both, is the extra space in the back seat that noticeable for passengers in the sedan vs the coupe? I'm not 100% set on needing a sedan if the space isn't that much bigger. I don't have people riding with me in the back seat all the time so the extra difficulty getting in isn't that big of a deal.

My goal is to be able to fit 3 people (assume ~ 6' tall) comfortably, plus snowboards through the rear seat.

Re: E36 Experts, whats this worth? - SlimKlim - 10-09-2013

Define "comfortably."

The cars have the same wheelbase and therefore the same amount of legroom which I would describe as "minimally acceptable" with a 6'+ driver. The sedan has a slightly taller roofline and therefore a little bit more headroom, but not a lot. I'm 6'3" and my hair pretty much brushes the headliner of a coupe with a sunroof.

Re: E36 Experts, whats this worth? - Jake - 10-09-2013

The sedan has a higher roofline. I think you could probably get three 6 footers in a coupe, with snowboards on the other half of the fold-down back seat. Just put the friend you like the least in the back.

I've been in the back of Joey's coupe a few times and while it's not 100% pleasant, I could deal with it. The sedan isn't much bigger, just easier access.

Re: E36 Experts, whats this worth? - RawrImAMonster - 10-09-2013

SlimKlim Wrote:Define "comfortably."

The cars have the same wheelbase and therefore the same amount of legroom which I would describe as "minimally acceptable" with a 6'+ driver. The sedan has a slightly taller roofline and therefore a little bit more headroom, but not a lot. I'm 6'3" and my hair pretty much brushes the headliner of a coupe with a sunroof.

Comfortably being better than the trans am where you have about 6 inches between the back of the drivers seat and the front of the rear seats.

If any of you all have been in the back of an evo 8/9, I would call that "comfortable". There was more than enough room for me to set in the back of that.

Re: E36 Experts, whats this worth? - D_Eclipse9916 - 10-09-2013

RawrImAMonster Wrote:If any of you all have been in the back of an evo 8/9, I would call that "comfortable". There was more than enough room for me to set in the back of that.

Very similiar. The sedans have FAR more headroom than the coupes. They also have the doors making ingress/egress easier.

If you plan on having more than you and 1 other person more than once a month, get the sedan. If it's a "once a month" thing the coupe is perfectly fine.

Story: I had a roof rack on my coupe e36 m3 for the couple weeks that it wasn't just doing "autox/race duty".

Me, Mike D'Amico, Michael Price, and Sacha Elliot along with all our gear and 3 pairs of skis/1 snowboard all travelled down to hburg, and then onto Snowshoe and eventually back to Northern Virginia. Everybody was comfortable until I decided to see how fast I could go on 33 with that much shit in the car :lol:

Re: E36 Experts, whats this worth? - Maengelito - 10-09-2013

Jake Wrote:I've been in the back of Joey's coupe a few times and while it's not 100% pleasant, I could deal with it.

Sorry Joey.

Re: E36 Experts, whats this worth? - RawrImAMonster - 10-10-2013

Might be able to get that original car I posted yet. The dealership lowered the price a few hundred today, so I'm just going to wait it out and hope they are willing to work on the price a little more in the coming weeks. I've been watching the bimmerforums and m3forums classified sections and haven't found much. Everything is either pretty highly overpriced and ragged out or just modded a ton.

I think I would be ok with paying around 8 grand for it considering it has been serviced at bmw dealerships throughout its whole life, it has a newer clutch, the radiator was replaced at the dealership that has it now, and the compression #'s are 175-180 on all six cylinders.

Re: E36 Experts, whats this worth? - HAULN-SS - 10-10-2013

RawrImAMonster Wrote:Everything is either pretty highly overpriced and ragged out

THANKS OBAMA...no really..i think cash for clunkers really fucked up the used car market

Re: E36 Experts, whats this worth? - Jeff - 10-10-2013

I was just going to post that it looks like the dropped the price a bit but I see you noticed. Not a bad looking piece really.

Re: E36 Experts, whats this worth? - RawrImAMonster - 10-10-2013

HAULN-SS Wrote:
RawrImAMonster Wrote:Everything is either pretty highly overpriced and ragged out

THANKS OBAMA...no really..i think cash for clunkers really fucked up the used car market

Here's an example of what I mean: <a class="postlink" href="http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2022657-FS-99-M3-Coupe-Alpine-Magma-lt-100k-miles-Mid-Atlantic-area">http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... antic-area</a>

17k for a 1999 M3 with 100k miles and nothing particularly special about it except that it looks to be in reasonably good shape for a 14 year old car.

Re: E36 Experts, whats this worth? - SlimKlim - 10-11-2013

Just cause people list their cars for $17k doesn't mean someone will pay it. I would just keep a close eye on bimmerforums and wait for something to come along. These cars aren't exactly rare, they made like 75,000 of them, and they are (I hope) at the bottom of their depreciation curve. Finding yourself a nice clean car for $8k or less shouldn't be a tall order to fill.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2044229-FS-95-BMW-M3-2-5-Cosmos-Black-manual-vader-137-xxx

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2038418-1998-BMW-M3-sedan-5-speed-NC

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2043842-1998-M3-Sedan-5-Speed-Manual-8500-B-O-New-England

Re: E36 Experts, whats this worth? - RawrImAMonster - 10-11-2013

SlimKlim Wrote:Just cause people list their cars for $17k doesn't mean someone will pay it. I would just keep a close eye on bimmerforums and wait for something to come along. These cars aren't exactly rare, they made like 75,000 of them, and they are (I hope) at the bottom of their depreciation curve. Finding yourself a nice clean car for $8k or less shouldn't be a tall order to fill.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2044229-FS-95-BMW-M3-2-5-Cosmos-Black-manual-vader-137-xxx

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2038418-1998-BMW-M3-sedan-5-speed-NC

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2043842-1998-M3-Sedan-5-Speed-Manual-8500-B-O-New-England

I'll keep watching, it just seems like a lot of them that don't have 150K+ miles are way overpriced. I'm trying to stick closer to the 100-120k range. I know that guy is never going to get 17k, but that was just an example of the ridiculous prices people are asking.

$8k isn't necessarily my limit either. That's just what I figure that car I originally posted would be worth to me. It has everything I want except the heated seats so I can live with the fact that it doesn't have maintenance records other than what is on carfax. I was planning on replacing most of that stuff anyway.

I'd like to find one before it gets too cold because my current car is way too loud to let it idle in the morning. I already feel bad for my neighbors when it first starts up. :lol: